TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2048
`IBG ET AL. v. TRADING TECH
`CBM2016-00009
`
`

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`Subpoenaed... - Honyaku E<>J translation list | Google Groups
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`Page 2 of 6
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`Mark Spahn View profile
`
` More options Aug 18, 6:03 pm
`
`Warren Smith asks:
` Has anybody on this list derived good ways to explain to people outside of
`our industry that [making] such decisions regarding handling of inferences is
`inherently part of the job of the skilled translator?
`==UNQUOTE==
`
`Nothing beyond the obvious. The explanation will have to be made to a judge
`and jurors who must be presumed to be monolingual, so you need to gin up a
`sentence in English that might be paraphrased (translated from English into
`English) in two ways, illustrating the differing approaches of two translators
`(paraphrasers). Maybe a good example would be to take a sentence from a
`technical paper and imagine how it might be restated in a Sunday-comics
`explanation written for inquisitive children. Possibly the very sentence at issue
`might serve this purpose, but a sentence on a completely different subject
`might make a "purer" illustration, unaffected by the particulars of the
`technology under discussion. A specific example or two is something that is
`easier to glom onto than merely a general principle.
`-- Mark Spahn (West Seneca, NY)
`
`
` Reply Reply to author Forward
`
`Will Jasprizza View profile
`Warren
`
` More options Aug 19, 4:33 am
`
`Without particulars of the case I can only speak generally but if you appear
`in court you will be asked about the incident in question, ie what you did
`and said, but evidence as to what is standard in the industry, and evidence
`as to the nature of translation would have to come from an expert witness.
`Are your attorneys going to call an experienced translator and perhaps a
`linguist, to be expert witnesses as to the nature of translation work? I am
`in no way implying you are not an experienced translator, but AFAIAA you
`can't give evidence in both capacities.
`
`Will Jasprizza
`
`- Show quoted text -
`
`
` Reply Reply to author Forward
`
`Marceline Therrien View profile
`
` More options Aug 20, 10:35 am
`
`From: honyaku@googlegroups.com [mailto:honyaku@googlegroups.com] On
`Behalf
`Of Warren Smith
`Sent: Saturday, August 18, 2007 1:01 PM
`To: honyaku@googlegroups.com
`Subject: Subpoenaed...
`
`If minor differences in wording, interpretation, etc., do become an issue,
`however, does anybody have any real good ways to explain to a layman (or to
`a jury) why two "correct" translations would not be identical, and why the
`presence of stylistic differences, etc., does not imply that one or the
`other translation is "wrong," unless there are material differences in
`meaning.
`
`--------
`
`I would be tempted to use the many English-language translations of the
`Bible as an example that can be readily understood by any layperson.
`
`http://groups.google.com/group/honyaku/browse_thread/thread/63e5d60d6623d139/3c139...
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`8/24/2007
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`Page 2 of 6
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`

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`Subpoenaed... - Honyaku E<>J translation list | Google Groups
`
`Page 3 of 6
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`You could pick a particular passage and show how it has been rendered
`differently in each of the versions.
`
`Marceline Therrien
`J2E Business Translations
`Oakland, California, USA
`
`
` Reply Reply to author Forward
`
`Steve Venti View profile
`Marceline Therrien:
`
` More options Aug 20, 4:54 pm
`
`> If minor differences in wording, interpretation, etc., do become an issue,
`> however, does anybody have any real good ways to explain to a layman (or
`to
`> a jury) why two "correct" translations would not be identical, and why the
`> presence of stylistic differences, etc., does not imply that one or the
`> other translation is "wrong," unless there are material differences in
`> meaning.
`
` I
`
` would first explain that "translation" actually comprises two
`distinct and separate processes: understanding the source text and
`creating the target text. I would then stress that even when two or
`more people share a common understanding of an issue, the complexity
`of language itself tends to result in individual differences in
`expression. Finally, I would illustrate that complexity by placing a
`common and well-known object--a national flag, for example--on the
`table and asking the jurors to write a brief description of that
`object's physical appearance. Comparing the jurors descriptions should
`be enough to demonstrate that even though they share a common
`understanding of what the flag looks like, and even though their
`descriptions are all quite similar, they are not all exactly the same.
`
`YMMV
`
`--
`Steve Venti @ I am not a lawyer, but I do sound like one from time to time
`
`The source of all unhappiness is other people.
`--Wally
`-----------------------------------------------------------------------
`
`
` Reply Reply to author Forward
`
` More options Aug 20, 5:06 pm
`Mika Jz View profile
`Marceline's suggestion of showing various renditions of Bible is
`excellent, and I want to add that a clear-cut demonstration, convincing
`even to non-linguists, is of great value to all of us translators,
`whether we realize it or not.
`I wonder if there are gems to be found in other language groups?
`
`Mika Jarmusz @ I wish I can help, but am off the list again for a while
`Salem, Oregon USA
`
`
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`
`Marceline Therrien View profile
`
` More options Aug 20, 7:17 pm
`
`- Show quoted text -
`
`http://groups.google.com/group/honyaku/browse_thread/thread/63e5d60d6623d139/3c139...
`
`8/24/2007
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`Page 3 of 6
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`

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`Subpoenaed... - Honyaku E<>J translation list | Google Groups
`
`Page 4 of 6
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`Just to be clear, the above question was posed by Warren Smith, not me.
`
`Marceline Therrien
`J2E Business Translations
`Oakland, California, USA
`
`
` Reply Reply to author Forward
`
`Steve Venti View profile
`
` More options Aug 20, 7:55 pm
`
`Marceline Therrien wrote:
`> Just to be clear, the above question was posed by Warren Smith, not me.
`
`Yeah, sorry about that. Poorly edited on my part.
`
`--
`Steve Venti
`
`The source of all unhappiness is other people.
`--Wally
`-----------------------------------------------------------------------
`
`
` Reply Reply to author Forward
`
`Warren Smith View profile
`
` More options Aug 20, 8:06 pm
`
`Marceline wrote:
`
`You could pick a particular passage and show how it has been rendered
`differently in each of the versions.
`---------------
`
`Perfect! Thanks.
`
`Warren
`
`
` Reply Reply to author Forward
`
`Friedemann Horn View profile
`
` More options Aug 21, 1:27 am
`
`> > If minor differences in wording, interpretation, etc., do become an issue,
`> > however, does anybody have any real good ways to explain to a layman
`(or to
`> > a jury) why two "correct" translations would not be identical, and why the
`> > presence of stylistic differences, etc., does not imply that one or the
`> > other translation is "wrong," unless there are material differences in
`> > meaning.
`
`Is "why are the two translations not identical?" really going to be the
`question you have to answer?
`
`If the opposing counsel wants to question you in court about your
`translation, he probably wants to make a point, and not learn about
`translation in general. So I'd imagine that the questioning might go more
`like this:
`
`"Did you produce this translation?"
`"Yes."
`"On line soandso, did you translate the Japanese word ABC with the
`English word XYZ?"
`
`http://groups.google.com/group/honyaku/browse_thread/thread/63e5d60d6623d139/3c139...
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`8/24/2007
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`Page 4 of 6
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`

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`Subpoenaed... - Honyaku E<>J translation list | Google Groups
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`Page 5 of 6
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`"Yes, but..."
`"Thank you. So you believe that XYZ is a good translation of the word
`ABC?"
`"Yes, but let me ..."
`"Thank you. No further questions."
`
`... which would leave little room for having the jurors write a small
`essay about a commonplace object.
`
`Also, don't forget that you're not the one on trial here. Any problems
`that one of the parties has due to misconceptions about translation
`are not really your problems. It's the job of their attorney to clear up
`those misconceptions (if that is to the client's advantage), not yours.
`
`Friedemann Horn
`www.horn-uchida.jp
`
`Steve Venti:
`
`- Show quoted text -
`
`
` Reply Reply to author Forward
`
`Will Jasprizza View profile
`Warren
`
` More options Aug 21, 3:49 am
`
`Like I said, I don't have all the facts, but on what you explained you are
`being subpoenaed to give evidence. People are subpoenaed to produce
`evidence
`concerning the matter at hand - i.e., first hand testimony as to "what
`happened". This evidence is factual: "I did this", "I translated this",
`"Yes, this is one of my documents". If you attempt to give evidence along
`the lines of "This is a reasonable translation of that", or "This is what
`all translators do" you have moved from the realms of fact into opinion, and
`opinion evidence is the realm of the expert witness.
`
`Information as to how translation is carried out generally would have to be
`adduced differently - it is not limited to the case at hand. To adduce
`evidence of this more general nature the usual practice is to call an expert
`witness to speak about the nature of translation, and how it isn't merely
`the transposing of words. Now you doubtless have this kind of knowledge, but
`as a subpoenaed person you cannot be "qualified" (in the legal sense) as an
`expert witness (at least not in this case) - an expert witness does not
`appear under force of subpoena but at the request of one of the parties.
`
`The other side may in turn call an expert witness to dispute your side's
`expert witness - if indeed they can find an experienced translator who is
`willing to testify that translating IS a simple act of transposing. The
`judge/jury will listen to your evidence as to what you did, listen to the
`expert evidence as to what common practice is, and determine whether or not
`what you did was in accordance with what translators normally do.
`
`I hope this clears things up a bit. You sound perfectly qualified to appear
`in someone else's hearing as an expert on translation, but not in a matter
`where you have been subpoenaed to give evidence.
`
`Cheers
`
`Will Jasprizza
`
`
` Reply Reply to author Forward
`
`http://groups.google.com/group/honyaku/browse_thread/thread/63e5d60d6623d139/3c139...
`
`8/24/2007
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`Page 5 of 6
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`

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`Subpoenaed... - Honyaku E<>J translation list | Google Groups
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`Page 6 of 6
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`http://groups.google.com/group/honyaku/browse_thread/thread/63e5d60d6623d139/3c139...
`
`8/24/2007