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`
` IN THE UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`
` NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS
`
` EASTERN DIVISION
`
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES )
`
`INTERNATIONAL, INC., )
`
` Plaintiff, )
`
` vs. ) No. 05-cv-4811
`
`CQG, INC. and CQGT, LLC, )
`
` Defendants. )
`
`
`
` VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION
`
` OF
`
` JOHN PHILLIP MELLOR, PH.D.
`
` January 16, 2015
`
`Reported By:
`
`Juliana F. Zajicek
`
`Ref: 13116
`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
`212-400-8845 - Depo@TransPerfect.com
`
`TRADING TECH EXHIBIT 2068
`CQG & CQGT v. Trading Technologies
`CBM2015-00058
`
`Page 1 of 4
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`

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`Page 38
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`Page 40
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`trader, correct?
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A. That's not correct. That's, I think,
`that's exactly what I described in my report here
`is that I did have an understanding of -- of
`electronic trading and trading in general and I
`think I have an extensive background in graphical
`user interfaces. And the combination of those two
`things, I think it's very straight forward to
`understand what the needs of an electronic trader
`are.
` Q. Just based on knowing how to design a
`graphical user interface, is that what you are
`saying, if you know how to design a graphical user
`interface, then by definition you know the needs of
`a professional electronic trader?
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A. That's not what I said. I said
`understanding -- having a basic understanding of
`trading and electronic trading and the graphical
`user interface background, that together is
`sufficient.
`
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`interface, that's a different matter.
`BY MR. GANNON:
` Q. Okay. But you agree that you are not an
`expert in electronic trading?
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A. I'm not exactly sure what your
`definition of an expert in electronic trading is,
`but depending on what that -- what your definition
`is, I'm not sure that I would consider myself an
`expert in electronic trading.
`BY MR. GANNON:
` Q. Okay. You know a Chris Thomas, right?
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A. I've met him briefly, yes.
`BY MR. GANNON:
` Q. Okay. Have you looked at his expert
`report?
` A. I have.
` Q. Have you looked at his qualifications?
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A. I have.
`
`Page 39
`
`Page 41
`
`BY MR. GANNON:
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` Q. Okay. You are not a professional
`2
`electronic trader yourself, correct?
`3
` A. No, I am not.
`4
` Q. And you've had no experience as a
`5
`professional electronic trader, correct?
`6
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`7
`BY THE WITNESS:
`8
` A. That is correct.
`9
`BY MR. GANNON:
`10
` Q. You've' never traded on an electronic
`11
`exchange, correct?
`12
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`13
`BY THE WITNESS:
`14
` A. That's correct.
`15
`BY MR. GANNON:
`16
` Q. You are not an expert in electronic
`17
`trading, correct?
`18
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`19
`BY THE WITNESS:
`20
` A. I would not say that I'm an expert in
`21
`electronic trading, but I understand the needs of a
`22
`trader as it relates to the issues in this case,
`23
`24 which is the matter here is a graphical user
`
`BY MR. GANNON:
`1
` Q. Would it be fair to say that Mr. Thomas
`2
`has more experience than you in the field of
`3
`electronic trading?
`4
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`5
`BY MR. GANNON:
`6
` Q. Is that a fair statement?
`7
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`8
`BY THE WITNESS:
`9
` A. Perhaps. It depends on how you define
`10
`the field of electronic trading.
`11
`BY MR. GANNON:
`12
` Q. Well, how do you define the field of
`13
`electronic trading?
`14
` MR. VOLLER: Form, relevance.
`15
`BY THE WITNESS:
`16
` A. I'm not sure I have a definition sitting
`17
`here.
`18
`BY MR. GANNON:
`19
` Q. Well, let me ask -- let me ask you this
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`21 way:
` Why does it depend on how you define the
`22
`field of electronic trading? What do you mean by
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`that?
`24
`
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`
`11 (Pages 38 to 41)
`
`Page 2 of 4
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`Page 42
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`Page 44
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` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A. Well, I think I'm just trying to
`understand the question and be able to make a --
`you know, give you an honest -- you know, an honest
`answer about what I think.
`BY MR. GANNON:
` Q. Well, I asked you, "Would it be fair to
`say that Mr. Thomas has more experience than you in
`the field of electronic trading?" And you said,
`"Perhaps. It depends on how you define the field
`of electronic trading."
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`BY MR. GANNON:
` Q. Do you see that?
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A. Do I see that?
`BY MR. GANNON:
` Q. Did you testify to that? Is that a fair
`statement?
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A. I think it's -- it sounds like what I
`
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` A. I did.
`BY MR. GANNON:
` Q. Okay. And you're familiar with the
`patents in this case, right?
` A. I am.
` Q. I mean, you rendered an opinion on the
`patents, right?
` A. I did.
` Q. And you spent a lot of time analyzing
`the patents, right?
` A. I did.
` Q. And your testimony is the patents relate
`to the field of electronic trading, correct?
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A. I did say that they are related.
`BY MR. GANNON:
` Q. Okay. So using that definition of the
`field of electronic trading, wouldn't it be fair to
`say that Mr. Thomas has more experience than you in
`the field of electronic trading?
` MR. VOLLER: Form, asked and answered.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A. I'm -- again, I'm still a little -- I'm
`
`Page 43
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`Page 45
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`said.
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`BY MR. GANNON:
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` Q. Do the patents-in-suit relate to the
`3
`field of electronic trading?
`4
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`5
`BY THE WITNESS:
`6
` A. I think it would be fair to say that
`7
`they relate to electronic trading.
`8
`BY MR. GANNON:
`9
` Q. Okay. With that understanding then,
`10
`11 would it be fair to say that Mr. Thomas has more
`experience than you in the field of electronic
`12
`trading?
`13
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`14
`BY THE WITNESS:
`15
` A. I'm not -- I'm not sure how that
`16
`relates, helps me answer the question, so I'm
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`having trouble sorting that out.
`18
`BY MR. GANNON:
`19
` Q. Well, you said the field of electronic
`20
`trading -- or the patents relate to the field of
`21
`electronic trading, right?
`22
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`23
`BY THE WITNESS:
`24
`
`not understanding what you're asking. You know,
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`the field of electronic trading is very broad.
`2
`There is a lot of stuff in it. Not all of that
`3
`seems to be applicable to the patents-in-suit, and
`4
`so that's what I'm having trouble kind of trying to
`5
`parse and understand how that relates.
`6
`BY MR. GANNON:
`7
` Q. Would it be fair to say that Mr. Thomas
`8
`has more experience than you in the field of
`9
`graphical user interfaces for electronic trading?
`10
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`11
`BY THE WITNESS:
`12
` A. I'm not sure that would be a fair
`13
`characterization.
`14
`BY MR. GANNON:
`15
` Q. Why not?
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` A. Because I think that the underlying
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`technology is the graphical user interface, there
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`are -- you know, every graphical user interface
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`application has sort of needs and goals and I have
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`extensive experience in graphical user interfaces.
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`22 And as I sort of detail in my report, it's over my
`career there have been numerous instances where
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`I've been asked to create a graphical user
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`
`TransPerfect Legal Solutions
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`
`12 (Pages 42 to 45)
`
`Page 3 of 4
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`Page 46
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`Page 48
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`interface in a domain that I had no prior
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`experience.
`2
` Q. And what domain was that? Because I
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`4 meant to ask you about that. You mentioned you
`design GUIs in other areas. What other areas?
`5
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`6
`BY THE WITNESS:
`7
` A. Well, they're -- they are cataloged in
`8
`9 my expert report, but there is a number of those.
`I've built graphical user interfaces for
`10
`helicopters, I've built graphical user interfaces
`11
`for human computer interaction, graphical user
`12
`interfaces for insurance adjustment, using
`13
`satellite photographs. There is a number of others
`14
`and they are detailed in my report.
`15
`BY MR. GANNON:
`16
` Q. Okay. The graphical user interface you
`17
`designed -- did you say for a helicopter?
`18
` A. That's correct.
`19
` Q. Is that graphical user interface being
`20
`used in a helicopter, do you know?
`21
` A. That is correct.
`22
` Q. Which helicopter?
`23
` A. CH-47 Chinook helicopters.
`24
`
`know how to fly a helicopter, but I still built
`1
`that graphical user interface and it is in use.
`2
` Q. And when you built it, though, you did
`3
`have to understand the needs of a pilot, the
`4
`helicopter pilot at some point, right?
`5
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`6
`BY THE WITNESS:
`7
` A. As I -- as I described, over the course
`8
`of building it, I certainly learned of some -- I
`9
`discovered things about the helicopter pilots and
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`11 what they do, yes.
`BY MR. GANNON:
`12
` Q. Okay. So when you designed the
`13
`graphical user interface for the helicopter, I
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`presume you talked to pilots who were helicopter
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`pilots, professional helicopter pilots?
`16
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`17
`BY THE WITNESS:
`18
` A. No, actually, I did not.
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`BY MR. GANNON:
`20
` Q. What does the graphical user interface
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`do in the helicopter that you designed?
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` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`23
`BY THE WITNESS:
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`
`Page 47
`
`Page 49
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` Q. When you designed that graphical user
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`interface, did you need to get up to speed on the
`2
`need of a helicopter pilot or did you -- or did
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`that not matter?
`4
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`5
`BY THE WITNESS:
`6
` A. Well, over the course of building that
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`graphical user interface, I certainly learned
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`about, you know, sort of the needs of -- of pilots.
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`10 Most of the concerns, I think, were pretty straight
`forward.
`11
`BY MR. GANNON:
`12
` Q. But it was a -- strike that.
`13
` It was important to understand the needs
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`of a helicopter pilot prior to designing a GUI for
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`the helicopter, right?
`16
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`17
`BY THE WITNESS:
`18
` A. I don't think that's what I said. I
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`said over the course of constructing it.
`20
`BY MR. GANNON:
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` Q. I'm sorry.
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` A. So I didn't -- I didn't know anything
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`about the heli- -- a helicopter pilot and nor do I
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` A. It includes the primary flight displays
`and mission displays.
`BY MR. GANNON:
` Q. And I -- is that important to be able to
`fly the helicopter?
` MR. VOLLER: Form.
`BY THE WITNESS:
` A. It is safety critical.
`BY MR. GANNON:
` Q. Okay. What do you mean "safety
`critical"?
` A. Well, there are some pretty stringent
`rules about how software for safety critical
`systems are built and there's -- there is a
`classification, there is sort of five different
`levels of classification, and it -- there are a
`variety of processes that you need to follow to get
`sort of final approval, final certification for the
`software. Level A software is sort of the highest
`level of criticality, and so those -- those
`portions of the software are designated Level A
`because if that software system were to fail or
`give an incorrect or improper indication, it could
`result in loss of life.
`
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`13 (Pages 46 to 49)
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`Page 4 of 4
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