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` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`Page 1
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`APPLE INC., : CBM2014-00102
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` Petitioner, : CBM2014-00106
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` vs. : CBM2014-00108
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`SMARTFLASH LLC, : CBM2014-00112
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` Patent Owner. :
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`---------------------------x
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` Deposition of JONATHAN KATZ, Ph.D.
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` Volume 1
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` McLean, Virginia
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` Wednesday, April 8, 2015
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` 9:05 a.m.
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`Pages: 1 - 96
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`Reported by: Cappy Hallock, RPR, CRR, CLR
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC
`866 4 Team GE
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`Apple Exhibit 1237
`Apple Inc. v. Smartflash LLC
`CBM2015-00028
`Page 00001
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`Page 2
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` Deposition of JONATHAN KATZ, Ph.D., held
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`at the offices of:
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` Davidson Berquist Jackson & Gowdey
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` 8300 Greensboro Drive, 5th Floor
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` McLean, Virginia 22102
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` Pursuant to notice, before Cappy
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`Hallock, Registered Professional Reporter,
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`Certified Realtime Reporter, Certified Livenote
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`Reporter, and Notary Public in and for the
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`District of Columbia.
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`Page 00002
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
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`Page 3
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` ON BEHALF OF PETITIONER:
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` JAMES R. BATCHELDER, ESQUIRE
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` Ropes & Gray LLP
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` 1900 University Avenue, 6th Floor
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` East Palo Alto, California 94303-2284
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` 650-617-4000 (P) 650-617-4090 (F)
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` james.batchelder@ropesgray.com
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` - and -
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` BRIAN D. MATTY, ESQUIRE
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` Ropes & Gray LLP
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` 1211 Avenue of the Americas
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` New York, New York 10036-8704
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` 212-596-9000 (P) 212-596-9090 (F)
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`APPEARANCES: (Continued)
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`Page 4
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` ON BEHALF OF PATENT OWNER:
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` MICHAEL R. CASEY, ESQUIRE
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` Davidson Berquist Jackson & Gowdey LLP
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` 8300 Greensboro Drive, 5th Floor
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` McLean, Virginia 22102
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` 703-894-6406 (P) 703-894-6430 (F)
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` mcasey@dbjg.com
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` - and -
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` BRADLEY W. CALDWELL, ESQUIRE
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` Caldwell Cassady & Curry
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` 2101 Cedar Springs Road, Suite 1000
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` Dallas, Texas 75201
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` 214-888-4848 (P) 214-888-4849 (F)
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` bcaldwell@caldwellcc.com
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`Reported by:
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` Cappy Hallock, RPR, CRR, CLR
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`GregoryEdwards, LLC
`866 4 Team GE
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`Page 00004
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` C O N T E N T S
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`Page 5
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`EXAMINATION OF KATZ PAGE
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` By Mr. Batchelder 8
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` -o0o-
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` E X H I B I T S
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` (Attached to transcript)
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`KATZ PAGE
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`Exhibit 1 U.S. Patent No. 8,118,221 46
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`Exhibit 2 Katz Declaration, Case 46
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` CBM2014-00102
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`Exhibit 3 2-21-12 Petition for Covered 55
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` Business Method Patent Review
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` of U.S. Patent No. 8,118,221
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` Docket -801
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`Exhibit 4 2-21-12 Petition for Covered 55
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` Business Method Patent Review
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` of U.S. Patent No. 8,118,221
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` Docket -802
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`///
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`EXHIBITS: (Continued)
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`Page 6
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`KATZ PAGE
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`Exhibit 5 U.S. Patent No. 5,530,235 59
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`Exhibit 6 U.S. Patent No. 5,629,980 79
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`Exhibit 7 U.S. Patent No. 5,915,019 90
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`Page 00006
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`record of a payment made to an e-payment system?
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` MR. CASEY: Objection. Relevance.
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`Page 52
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`Incomplete hypothetical.
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` A. I'm not sure.
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` Q. Would one of ordinary skill in the art
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`have understood that a record of a payment made to
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`an e-payment system could be sent to a data access
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`terminal in connection with enforcing a condition
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`to provide content?
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` A. I'm not sure.
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` Q. As you sit here now does that concept
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`make sense to you?
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` A. I'm not sure because you're asking
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`hypotheticals without giving me full details of
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`the system.
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` Q. I'm giving you all the detail I think you
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`need to know to answer the question. What else
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`would you need to know?
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` A. Then I've already answered it.
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` Q. That you're not sure?
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` A. That's right.
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` Q. In Column 6, Lines 60 through 64, you
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`will see two different times the phrase "payment
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`Page 53
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`made."
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` Do you see that?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. What does that phrase mean in that
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`context?
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` A. I think it can refer to either a payment
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`in the process of being made or a payment that has
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`already been made.
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` Q. Is that phrase "payment made" also broad
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`enough to encompass a payment to be made in the
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`future?
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` A. No, I don't think so.
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` Q. Why?
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` A. Just based on the grammatical sense of
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`the sentence.
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` Q. Why do you say that the phrase "payment
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`made" can refer either to a payment in the process
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`of being made or a payment that already has been
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`made in the context of Column 6, Lines 60 through
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`64?
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` A. Again, just based on the grammar of the
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`sentence.
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` Q. What is it about the grammar of the
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`sentence that imparts that meaning to you?
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` A. The verb "made."
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` Q. I'm sorry, I couldn't hear your answer.
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` A. The verb "made."
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` Q. And how does the verb "made" impart that
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`meaning?
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` A. As I said earlier, it can be talking
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`about a payment in the process of being made, or a
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`payment that has already been made.
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` Q. You understand that in these proceedings,
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`the Petitioner has proposed that "payment data" be
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`construed to mean "data representing payment made
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`for requested content data."
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And that construction also uses that
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`two-word phrase "payment made," correct?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. And do you interpret that two-word phrase
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`to mean the same thing in Petitioner's
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`construction as it does in '221 patent, Column 6,
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`UNITED STATES OF AMERICA )
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`STATE OF MARYLAND )
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`Page 96
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` I, CAPPY HALLOCK, the reporter before
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`whom the foregoing deposition was taken, do hereby
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`certify that the witness whose testimony appears
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`in the foregoing deposition was sworn by me; that
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`said deposition is a true record of the testimony
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`given by said witness.
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` I further certify that I am neither
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`counsel for, related to, nor employed by any of
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`the parties to the action in which this deposition
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`was taken; and further that I am not a relative or
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`employee of any attorney or counsel employed by
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`the parties hereto, or financially or otherwise
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`interested in the outcome of this action.
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` _______________________
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` Cappy Hallock, RPR, CRR
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`My Commission expires January 19, 2017
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