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`Clerk’s File Copy
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`3561
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`NORTHERN DISTRICT OF ILLINOIS
`EASTERN DIVISION
`
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES INTERNATIONAL,)
`INC.,
`
`Plaintiff,
`
`V.
`
`)
`
`)
`
`)
`
`eSPEED, INC., eSPEED INTERNATIONAL,)
`LTD., ECCO LLC, and ECCOWARE, LTD.,)
`
`Defendants.
`
`No. 04 C 5312
`
`Chicago, Illinois
`October 4, 2007
`10:30 o’clock a.m.
`
`VOLUME 17-A
`TRIAL TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
`BEFORE THE HONORABLE JAMES B. MORAN, and a JURY
`
`Trading Technologies
`International, Inc., by:
`
`and
`
`o ’Un TC-
`
`MjctiArc-L’COURT
` S. L)ISIR
`
`
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES
`INTERNATIONAL, INC.,
`MR. STEVEN F. BORSAND
`222 South Riverside Drive
`Chicago, Illinois 60606
`312-476-1000
`steve .borsand@
`tradingtechnologies . corn
`
`McDONNELL, BOEHNEN, HULBERT &
`BERGHOFF, LTD.
`MR. PAUL H. BERGHOFF
`MR. S. RICHARD CARDEN
`MR. CHRISTOPHER M. CAVAN
`MR. MICHAEL D. GANNON
`MS. JENNIFER M. KURCZ
`MR. MATTHEW J. SAMPSON
`MR. LEIF R. SIGMOND
`300 South Wacker Drive
`Chicago, Illinois 60606
`312-913-0001
`berghoff@mbhb.com
`kurcz@rnbhb.corn
`
`N
`
`0001
`
`TDA 1025
`TD Ameritrade v. TT
`CBM2014-00137
`
`
`
`eSpeed, Inc., eSpeed
`International, Inc.
`Ecco LLC, Eccoware,
`LTD., by:
`
`3562
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`WINSTON & STRAWN
`MR. GEORGE C. LOMBARDI
`MR. RAYMOND C. PERKINS
`MR. IMRON T. ALY
`MR. KEVIN BANASIK
`MS. ELIZABETH HARTFORD ERICKSON
`MR. ANDREW M. JOHNSTONE
`MS. TRACEY J. ALLEN
`MR. JAMES M. HILMERT
`35 West Wacker Drive
`Chicago, Illinois 60601
`312-558-5600
`glombardi@winston.com
`rperkins@winston.com
`
`LAW OFFICES OF
`GARY A. ROSEN, P.C.
`MR. GARY A. ROSEN
`1831 Chestnut Street, Suite 802
`Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 191 ):
`215-972-0600
`
`Rosenthal Collins Group,
`LLC, by:
`
`DOWELL BAKER
`MR. GEOFFREY A. BAKER
`201 Main Street
`Lafayette, IN 47901
`7 65-42 9-4004
`gabaker@dowellbaker.com
`
`Court Reporter: (cid:9)
`
`MS. CAROLYN COX, CSR, RPR, CRR
`Official Court Reporter
`219 S. Dearborn Street, Suite 1854-B
`Chicago, Illinois 60604
`(312) 435-5639
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`MR. BERGHOFF, CLOSING ARGUMENT
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`MR. LOMBARDI, CLOSING ARGUMENT
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`basically what their testimony was. They had the TT
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`patent and the TT claims in front of them, and they
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`said, Oh, I find this part in the prior art. Oh. I find
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`this part over here.
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`That is hindsight. That is not what Judge
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`Moran is going to tell you you need to do when you look
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`at obviousness.
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`Then the other thing that they were fond of
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`doing in their testimony is that they took the patent,
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`TT’s own patent, and used it as a road map to argue
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`that, Well, once I know what the invention is, I would
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`know how to build it. Well, that is right, that is
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`TT, once Harris Brumfield came up with the
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`idea for the combination, was able to build it for him,
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`although it took many months to work out the software
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`kinks. But that is legally improper to say, Once I know
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`about the invention, I can build it. That is the wrong
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`approach.
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`eSpeed’s expert also just want to ignore
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`the many disadvantages with Mr. Brumfield’s proposal:
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`Might miss the market, slower than the conventional grid
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`screen, less accurate for orders at the market, you are
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`using up a lot of screen real estate.
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`They want to ignore those disadvantages
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`because they undercut the obviousness argument we are
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`trying to make here and they want to minimize the
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`benefits.
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`These are all benefits that they enjoy in
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`their product that they copied from MD Trader: The
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`user has a better view of the market place, what it is
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`doing.
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`The user, trader, has increased confidence
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`that he or she is going to get the right price, and
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`overall, it is a faster trading tool, a more profitable
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`trading tool.
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`They want to ignore that real world
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`evidence, and instead, they want you to focus on four
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`things that have a static price axis -- and they do, we
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`never disputed that. But what they don’t have, these
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`four things, is single-action order entry; they don’t
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`have working orders in alignment; they-don’t have
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`single-action cancellation; and two of them, Midas
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`Kapiti and Trade Pad, aren’t even prior art.
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`They also want to ignore what happened in
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`the Patent Office. ,Mr. Godici had to agree. The Patent
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`Office considered the combination of static and
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`single-action. Not only considered it, but found that
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`this was the closest prior art.
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`The first patent was one that showed static
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`0005
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`prices. The second, XTrader had single-action order
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`entry. Talk about hindsight, they are making the same
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`argument that the Patent Office already ruled on in
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`granting our patents.
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`The Patent Office knew there were static
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`prices. The Patent Office knew that there was
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`single-action order entry. And they granted the patent.
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`Talk about hindsight, this is the case. But we don’t
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`have to stop there, we have real world examples of why
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`this is hindsight.
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`eSpeed first. Here is the screen they had
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`before they copied MD Trader. It was a conventional
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`screen, the inside market always stayed focused on the
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`The testimony from Mr. Noviello is their
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`customers shut them out. They did not want that screen.
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`Why? MD Trader was already on the market. What they
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`wanted was MD Trader. They wanted a copy of MD Trader.
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`So what eSpeed had was the conventional, and what they
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`needed and then copied from TT was MD Trader.
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`Now, in 2004 -- so MD Trader has been on the
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`market for more than two years -- this is from Bill Gill
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`to Joe Noviello. Mr. Lombardi said I was going to make
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`fun of eSpeed and that they were dumb for not seeing the
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`invention when it was right in front of their faces.
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`0006
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`That is not my point at all. These are
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`extremely bright people. These are the best of the best
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`and one of our arch competitors.
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`But even with MD Trader on the market for a
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`couple years, this memo makes it clear that Mr. Gill
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`didn’t understand static price, what the advantage was.
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`He said, This is maybe why the TT view
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`requires a specific user -- instead, moves the center
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`line of prices up and down with the market.
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`Maybe. He didn’t get it yet. Is he dumb?
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`No, he is very bright, he is very bright. But if there
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`is any evidence -- and you will have this E-mail when
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`you are back deliberating, and you can take a look at
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`it -- but if there is any evidence that makes it that
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`this invention was not obvious in 1998 and 1999, this is
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`it. ESpeed’s best and brightest in 2003.
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`About the Tokyo Stock Exchange, they had
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`supposedly a static screen in the scroll mode, we will
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`talk about that in a second. They don’t have static
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`action. They didn’t have it then, they don’t have it
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`So, if it is so obvious to combine it, why
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`didn’t they do it? It is pretty simple.
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`And let’s not forget, single-actions have
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`been everywhere since 1990. So the Tokyo Stock Exchange
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`0007
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`knew about static prices, knew about single-action, and
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`they never combined it. Why is this obvious? It is
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`not. This is real world. This is common sense.
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`GL Trade Pad, the window they devised, 4.31,
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`that had a single click, wait, another single click,
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`that Mr. Ferraro clearly said is not a single action,
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`their best relationship with CME said it was useless, it
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`was useless.
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`And indeed, their own product history shows
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`that. They moved away from single-action, they never
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`had it in the first place, they moved away from it. And
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`then when they finally came out with a product to
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`compete in the market place -- Trade Pad was never a
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`problem. That was just some developmental software they
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`were playing with, it was rejected by the CME.
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`When they came out with a product in 2001 --
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`actually, they came out with it in 2002, what did they
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`copy? TT.
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`Why has GL Quick Trade been developed? To
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`compete with the innovative competition. We know who it
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`is. It is right in their own document. And what is
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`part of this new window, this new development? It is
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`the vertical display of prices. It offers an
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`alternative visual layout.
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`Now for the first time, GL Quick Trade --
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`0008
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`and we are in 2001 -- will send an order with one click.
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`In 2002 1 for the first time now GL Trade
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`says, We are going to add two new columns for order,
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`location, and monitoring and cancellation. And in an
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`internal document in 2002 they refer to one-click order
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`cancellation for fast trading as the sought-after
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`one-click order cancellation. This wasn’t obvious to
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`GL.
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`I am not going to spend a lot of time on
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`these, you have heard a lot about it. These are
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`indicia, secondary considerations, but they must be
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`considered by you. That is what Judge Moran is going to
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`Because this is certainly not a clear case,
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`because this is clearly not in eSpeed’s case a clear
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`case where they win on obviousness, if anything the
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`wrong way.
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`Copying? Everybody copied MD Trader when it
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`came out, including Ecco and eSpeed and the industry.
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`Initial skepticism? We heard about that
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`from Mr. Feltes. He said his traders, at first, were
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`reluctant to try it. TT’s salespeople were reluc(cid:128)ant to
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`sell it. It has been a commercial success. It had
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`unexpected benefits, and it had acceptance by licensees.
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`(
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`One other thing, I want to focus on one
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`thing. It was like a scientific experiment.
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`Do you remember the testimony of David
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`Martin? No connection to the case, he was using
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`conventional software, and all of a sudden, he started
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`losing money, and he didn’t know what was going on. He
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`was entering trades as quickly as he was before, his
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`strategy hadn’t changed, and he wasn’t getting -- he
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`wasn’t getting the orders he wanted.
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`Then he changed to MD Trader, and within
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`three days, within three days it had a material impact
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`on his results. And as soon as he started use the new
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`software, All of a sudden, my profit and loss went up
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`and I started to make money consistently.
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`The only thing that changed it was he used
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`MD Trader. Stunning evidence of the effect of MD Trader
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`in the real world.
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`eSpeed has been told this by TT in the past,
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`but I will tell them again in your presence: They are
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`welcome to use a multiple-action order entry system, it
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`is not covered by our patents. They are welcome to use
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`the Trade Pad system, go ahead, it is not covered by our
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`patents. It doesn’t infringe, go ahead, use the TSE
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`system, Midas Midas Kapiti, TIFFE. Go ahead, use those
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`systems, sell those systems, fine with us. But they
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`14:50:56 25
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`don’t want to do that. They want to sell a copy of
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`0010
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`come up.
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`On the prior art, they didn’t consider that
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`issue here. They didn’t have TSE, TIFFE, Midas Kapiti,
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`GL Win. They didn’t have them.
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`So you are here operating on a clean slate,
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`and you have spent four weeks looking at this stuff. If
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`you were here to be a rubber stamp for the Patent and
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`Trademark Office, I hope you would have done it a lot
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`faster than that. The Patent and Trademark Office does
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`its job and you should do your job.
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`But there is another thing, and I wanted to
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`point this out to you because I think this is just
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`another example of what happens when lawyers try to
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`explain away too much.
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`Remember, they have now said that the Patent
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`and Trademark Office considered art that had a static
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`price axis in it. Do you remember that? Notice of
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`allowance? And they say, actually, I am wrong, Lombardi
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`is wrong. The Patent and Trademark Office considered
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`art with a static price axis.
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`Let’s look at the document, and this is from
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`that notice of allowance. Do you remember the notice of
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`allowance warning? It was the thing that the Patent and
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`Trademark Office sent out at the end and they said, This
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`is why we are going to allow -- this is why we are going
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`0011
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