`
`February 17, 2015
`
`103
`
` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`TD AMERITRADE HOLDING CORP., TD )
`AMERITRADE, INC., and TD )
`AMERITRADE ONLINE HOLDINGS CORP.,)
` )
` Petitioners, )
` ) Case No.
` V. ) CBM2014-00131
` )
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES ) Patent No.
`INTERNATIONAL, INC., ) 7,533,056
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_________________________________)
` )
`TD AMERITRADE HOLDING CORP., TD )
`AMERITRADE, INC., and TD )
`AMERITRADE ONLINE HOLDINGS CORP.,)
` )
` Petitioners, )
` ) Case No.
` V. ) CBM2014-00133
` )
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES ) Patent No.
`INTERNATIONAL, INC., ) 7,676,411
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_________________________________)
`(Caption continues on following page.)
`
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF AKIKO ROSENBERRY, VOLUME II
` LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA, FEBRUARY 17, 2015
`
`MARLA D. SHARP, RPR, CLR, CCRR, CSR No. 11924
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`TDA 1053
`TD Ameritrade v. TT
`CBM2014-00131
`
`0001
`
`
`
`Akiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015
`
`104
`
`TD AMERITRADE HOLDING CORP., TD )
`AMERITRADE, INC., and TD )
`AMERITRADE ONLINE HOLDINGS CORP.,)
` )
` Petitioners, )
` ) Case No.
` V. ) CBM2014-00135
` )
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES ) Patent No.
`INTERNATIONAL, INC., ) 6,772,132
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_________________________________)
` )
`TD AMERITRADE HOLDING CORP., TD )
`AMERITRADE, INC., and TD )
`AMERITRADE ONLINE HOLDINGS CORP.,)
` )
` Petitioners, )
` ) Case No.
` V. ) CBM2014-00136
` )
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES ) Patent No.
`INTERNATIONAL, INC., ) 6,766,304
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_________________________________)
` )
`TD AMERITRADE HOLDING CORP., TD )
`AMERITRADE, INC., and TD )
`AMERITRADE ONLINE HOLDINGS CORP.,)
` )
` Petitioners, )
` ) Case No.
` V. ) CBM2014-00137
` )
`TRADING TECHNOLOGIES ) Patent No.
`INTERNATIONAL, INC., ) 7,685,055
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`_________________________________)
`VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF AKIKO ROSENBERRY, VOLUME
`II, taken on behalf of Patent Owner, at TransPerfect
`Translations, Inc., 2049 Century Park East, Room A,
`Los Angeles, California, commencing at 8:58 a.m.,
`thank you, February 17, 2015, before Marla D. Sharp,
`RPR, CLR, CCRR, CSR No. 11924.
`
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`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`0002
`
`
`
`Akiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015
`
`105
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
`FOR PETITIONERS:
` STERNE, KESSLER, GOLDSTEIN & FOX
` BY: JONATHAN M. STRANG, ESQ.
` LORI GORDON, ESQ.
` MARK EVENS, ESQ.
` 1100 New York Avenue, NW
` Washington, DC 20005
` 202-371-2600
` jstrang@skgf.com
` lgordon@skgf.com
` mevens@skgf.com
`
`FOR PATENT OWNER:
` FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW, GARRETT &
` DUNNER, LLP
` BY: KEVIN D. RODKEY, ESQ.
` 3500 Suntrust Plaza
` 303 Peachtree Street, NE
` Atlanta, Georgia 30308
` 404-653-6400
` kevin.rodkey@finnegan.com
`
` FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW, GARRETT &
` DUNNER, LLP
` BY: JOSHUA L. GOLDBERG, ESQ.
` 901 New York Avenue, NW
` Washington, DC 20001
` 202-408-4000
` joshua.goldberg@finnegan.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` Ryan Wong, videographer
` Harold Abilock
`
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`202-220-4158
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`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`0003
`
`
`
`Akiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015
`
`106
`
` I N D E X
`EXAMINATION PAGE
`AKIKO ROSENBERRY
` BY MR. RODKEY 109
`
`(No exhibits marked.)
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`202-220-4158
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`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`0004
`
`
`
`Akiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015
`
`107
` LOS ANGELES, CALIFORNIA; THANK YOU, FEBRUARY 17, 2015
` 8:58 A.M.
` * * *
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We are
`going on the record at 8:58 a.m. Today's date is
`February 17th, 2015. This is Volume No. II, media
`unit 1, of the video deposition of Akiko Rosenberry
`in the matter of TD Ameritrade Holding Corp versus
`Trading Technologies International, Inc., filed in
`the United States Patent and Trademark Office. And
`the case number is CBM2014-00131.
` This deposition is being held at
`2029 Century Park East, Conference Room A,
`Los Angeles, California 90067.
` My name is Ryan Wong. I am the
`videographer, representing Henderson Legal Services.
` Will counsel and all present state their
`appearances and affiliations for the record, please.
` MR. RODKEY: Kevin Rodkey with Finnegan,
`Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner, counsel for
`Trading Technologies.
` MR. GOLDBERG: Joshua Goldberg with
`Finnegan for Trading Technologies.
` MR. ABILOCK: Harold Abilock of JapanLink
`Translations.
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`202-220-4158
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`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
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`0005
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`Akiko Rosenberry
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`February 17, 2015
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` MR. STRANG: Jonathan M. Strang for
`Sterne Kessler, representing TD Ameritrade. With me
`today are Mark Evens and Lori Gordon, also of
`Sterne Kessler.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The court reporter is
`Marla Sharp, representing Henderson Legal Services,
`and will now swear in the witness.
` AKIKO ROSENBERRY,
` having been first duly sworn,
` was examined and testified as follows:
` MR. STRANG: This is Jonathan Strang for
`petitioner. The patent office is still closed
`because of inclement weather. We were unable to
`resolve the issues discussed yesterday. Rather than
`burden the record further with our position, we
`think it's well represented. We maintain our
`objections, and it's -- still intend to seek relief
`from the board to prevent or strike the use of this
`deposition in any further briefs.
` However, in the interest of expediency and
`convenience for the witness, we will proceed. And
`as the parties have agreed, cross-examination will
`continue for the pages beyond 1 through 100, which
`Ms. Rosenberry's already testified to.
` MR. RODKEY: Counsel, Ms. Rosenberry
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`0006
`
`
`
`Akiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015
`
`109
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`already has documents Exhibit Nos. TDA 1007 and 1008
`from yesterday's deposition.
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
` MR. RODKEY: There are copies for you.
` MR. STRANG: Thank you.
` EXAMINATION
`BY MR. RODKEY:
` Q Good morning, Ms. Rosenberry.
` A Good morning.
` Q Do you understand that you're still under
`oath from just being sworn in and from yesterday?
` A Yes, I do.
` Q And did you discuss this deposition or your
`testimony with anyone during our break?
` A No.
` Q And did you review any documents while we
`were on break?
` A No.
` Q Would you please turn to page TSE -748 in
`both Exhibits 1007 and 1008.
` A Repeat that page again, please.
` Q TSE -748. It's 0102, if you look at the
`very bottom of the pages.
` A 010 -- -02.
` Q And if you look at the top of this page in
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`
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`February 17, 2015
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`the top left, it says this is part of Chapter 7,
`correct?
` MR. STRANG: Objection. Scope, relevancy.
` You may answer.
` THE WITNESS: Chapter 7. Yes.
`BY MR. RODKEY:
` Q And we discussed certain pages of Chapter 7
`that you translated yesterday, correct?
` A Yes.
` Q And if you'll look in the line immediately
`below that, it says "7-1-4." Do you see that?
` A Yes. 714, right.
` Q And is that your understanding, that this
`is part of Chapter 7, subsection 1?
` MR. STRANG: Objection. Scope, relevancy.
` You may answer.
` THE WITNESS: I believe so.
`BY MR. STRANG:
` Q And the pages you translated also include
`parts of Chapter 7, subsection 1?
` A One -- pages 1 to 100.
` Q Yes. Do they include parts of Chapter 7,
`subsection 1?
` A I think so.
` Q And if we look in the same line, do you see
`
`202-220-4158
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`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
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`
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`Akiko Rosenberry
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`February 17, 2015
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`the words "Security name" in the English
`translation?
` A "Security name." Yes.
` Q And if you look at the Japanese form, do
`those characters correspond to the word "meigara"?
` MR. STRANG: Objection. Scope, relevancy.
` MR. RODKEY: And I'll spell it for the
`reporter. M-e-i-g-a-r-a.
` THE WITNESS: That's not the word I used,
`yes. But "security name" could be transferred --
`translated as "meigara."
`BY MR. RODKEY:
` Q And why do you think that?
` THE WITNESS: Can I answer?
` MR. STRANG: Yes, you may answer.
` THE WITNESS: "Brand name," in a
`particularly -- particular company in this case,
`"security" will probably be "security name."
`BY MR. RODKEY:
` Q So could "meigara" have been translated as
`"security name" in your pages?
` MR. STRANG: Objection. Scope, relevancy.
` You may answer.
` THE WITNESS: It could --
` MR. STRANG: Rather than interrupting
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`February 17, 2015
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`the -- never --
` You may answer.
` THE WITNESS: Well, different translator
`would have -- yeah, it could be.
`BY MR. RODKEY:
` Q Okay. Let's go to page TSE -908.
` A Nine zero -- it's at the bottom?
` Q Yeah, it's in the bottom right corner. If
`you look in the bottom middle, it's 0263.
` A 0263. Oh, wrong way. -63.
` Yes.
` Q And I actually want you to think back to
`yesterday for a minute.
` Do you remember when we discussed the word
`"saiken," s-a-i-k-e-n?
` A "Saiken," yes.
` Q And in your pages do you remember you had
`translated that as "security"?
` A "Security," I believe so.
` Q Is it your opinion that the word "saiken"
`and "meigara" are equivalent in Japanese?
` MR. STRANG: Objection. Scope, relevancy.
` THE WITNESS: In a broad spectrum, "brand,"
`or the brand name, in the -- like we did the
`definition of the brand. It is specific product or
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`202-220-4158
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`February 17, 2015
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`the specific item of the company under commercial
`business terms, it's -- "meigara" is often used in
`Japanese. "Meigara" often stands for "brand."
` But in a specific company is -- say, tea
`company, it'll be a brand name for the particular
`tea, like a Yamamotoyama.
` And in this particular case, since the
`particular company is a stock exchange or stock
`product company, that could be specifically, then,
`translated to "security." I believe so.
` MR. RODKEY: We have no further questions
`at this time.
` MR. STRANG: Let's take a quick break.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are going off the
`record. The time is 9:09 a.m.
` (Recess taken from 9:09 a.m.
` to 9:14 a.m.)
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: We are back on the
`record. The time is 9:14 a.m.
` MR. STRANG: Having concluded cross,
`TD Ameritrade has no questions for redirect.
` MR. RODKEY: We're done.
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes the video
`deposition of Akiko Rosenberry, Volume II,
`consisting of one media. The time is 9:14 -- or
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`0011
`
`
`
`Akiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015
`
`114
`
`9:15 a.m. We are off the record.
` - - -
` (The deposition concluded at 9:15 a.m.)
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`0012
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`
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`Akiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015
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`115
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`STATE OF CALIFORNIA )
` ) ss.
`COUNTY OF LOS ANGELES )
`
` I, AKIKO ROSENBERRY, VOLUME II, having
`appeared for my videotaped deposition on
`February 17, 2015, hereby certify under penalty of
`perjury under the laws of the United States of
`America that the foregoing is true and correct.
` IN WITNESS WHEREOF, I have hereunto
`subscribed my name this _______ day of ____________
`201___, at _______________________, _______________.
` (city) (state)
`
` ____________________________________
` AKIKO ROSENBERRY
`
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`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
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`0013
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`Akiko Rosenberry
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`February 17, 2015
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` CERTIFICATE OF REPORTER
` I, MARLA D. SHARP, certified shorthand reporter
`in the State of California, the officer before whom the
`proceedings were taken, do hereby certify that prior
`to the commencement of the deposition of AKIKO
`ROSENBERRY, the witness was by me first duly sworn to
`testify the truth; that said deposition was taken in
`Stenotype notes by me on the 17th day of February,
`2015, at the offices of TransPerfect Translations,
`Inc., 2049 Century Park East, Room B, Los Angeles,
`California, commencing at 8:58 a.m., and ending at
`9:15 a.m., and was thereafter reduced to typewritten
`form under my supervision and that the foregoing
`pages, 103 - 114, constitute a true and accurate record
`of the said witness.
` I further certify that present on behalf of
`Petitioner, TD Ameritrade Holding Corp., TD
`Ameritrade, Inc., and TD Ameritrade Online Holdings
`Corp., were Jonathan M. Strang, Attorney at Law, Lori
`Gordon, Attorney at Law, and Mark Evens, Attorney
`at Law, of Sterne Kessler Goldstein Fox, 1100 New York
`Avenue, N.W., Washington, D.C. 20005, and present on
`behalf of Patent Owner, Trading Technologies
`International, Inc., were Joshua L. Goldberg, Attorney
`at Law, Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner,
`
`202-220-4158
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`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`0014
`
`
`
`Akiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015
`
`117
`
`LLP, 901 New York Avenue, Northwest, Washington, D.C.
`20001, and Kevin D. Rodkey, Attorney at Law,
`Finnegan, Henderson, Farabow, Garrett & Dunner, LLP,
`3500 Suntrust Plaza, 303 Peachtree Street, Northeast,
`Atlanta, Georgia 30308.
` I further certify that the original deposition
`will be transmitted to counsel for TD Ameritrade
`Holding Corp., Petitioner TD Ameritrade, Inc., and TD
`Ameritrade Online Holdings Corp., for transmission to
`AKIKO ROSENBERRY for reading and execution.
` I further certify that I am not related to, nor
`associated with any of the parties or their
`attorneys, nor do I have any disqualifying interest,
`personal or financial, in the actions within.
` Dated this 17th day of February, 2015.
`
` _____________________________
` Marla D. Sharp
` RPR, CLR, CCRR, CSR No. 11924
`
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`
`0015
`
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`Akiko RosenberryAkiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015February 17, 2015
`
`1
`
`A
`abilock 105:22
`107:24,24
`accurate 116:14
`actions 117:14
`affiliations
`107:18
`agreed 108:22
`akiko 103:20
`104:22 106:3
`107:7 108:8
`113:24 115:5
`115:18 116:5
`117:10
`america 115:9
`ameritrade
`103:3,4,4,10
`103:11,11
`104:1,1,2,8,8,9
`104:15,15,16
`107:8 108:2
`113:21 116:17
`116:18,18
`117:7,8,9
`angeles 103:21
`104:23 107:1
`107:14 115:3
`116:10
`answer 110:4,16
`111:14,15,23
`112:2
`appeal 103:2
`appearances
`107:18
`appeared 115:6
`associated
`117:12
`atlanta 105:12
`117:5
`attorney 116:19
`116:20,20,24
`117:2
`attorneys
`
`117:13
`avenue 105:5,16
`116:22 117:1
`B
`b 116:10
`back 112:12
`113:18
`behalf 104:22
`116:16,23
`believe 110:17
`112:19 113:10
`beyond 108:23
`board 103:2
`108:18
`bottom 109:23
`112:7,8,9
`brand 111:16
`112:23,24,25
`113:3,5
`break 109:14,17
`113:13
`briefs 108:19
`broad 112:23
`burden 108:15
`business 113:2
`C
`c 105:1 116:22
`117:1
`california
`103:21 104:23
`107:1,14 115:1
`116:3,11
`caption 103:17
`case 103:6,13
`104:3,10,17
`107:11 111:17
`113:7
`cbm201400131
`103:6 107:11
`cbm201400133
`103:13
`cbm201400135
`
`104:4
`cbm201400136
`104:11
`cbm201400137
`104:18
`ccrr 103:25
`104:24 117:19
`century 104:23
`107:13 116:10
`certain 110:7
`certificate 116:1
`certified 116:2
`certify 115:7
`116:4,16 117:6
`117:11
`chapter 110:1,5
`110:7,14,20,22
`characters
`111:5
`city 115:13
`closed 108:12
`clr 103:25
`104:24 117:19
`com 105:6,7,7
`105:13,18
`commencement
`116:5
`commencing
`104:23 116:11
`commercial
`113:1
`company 111:17
`113:1,4,5,8,9
`concluded
`113:20 114:3
`concludes
`113:23
`conference
`107:13
`consisting
`113:25
`constitute
`116:14
`continue 108:23
`
`continues
`103:17
`convenience
`108:21
`copies 109:4
`corner 112:8
`corp 103:3,4,10
`103:11 104:1,2
`104:8,9,15,16
`107:8 116:17
`116:19 117:8,9
`correct 110:2,8
`115:9
`correspond
`111:5
`counsel 107:17
`107:20 108:25
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`D
`d 103:25 104:24
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`103:20 104:22
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`E
`e 105:1,1 106:1
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`112:21
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`108:10
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`117:10
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`108:20
`F
`farabow 105:10
`105:15 107:20
`116:25 117:3
`
`
`
`202-220-4158202-220-4158
`
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`
`www.hendersonlegalservices.comwww.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`0016
`
`
`
`Akiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015
`2
`
`february 103:21
`104:24 107:1,6
`115:7 116:8
`117:15
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`103:17
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`G
`garrett 105:10
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`H
`
`harold 105:22
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`105:10,15
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`
`I
`ii 103:20 104:22
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`110:10
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`108:13
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`103:8,15 104:5
`104:12,19
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`111:25
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`J
`japanese 111:4
`
`112:21 113:3
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`107:24
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`K
`kessler 105:3
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`L
`l 105:16 116:24
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`M
`m 104:23 105:3
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`N
`n 105:1 106:1
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`O
`oath 109:11
`objection 110:3
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`110:15 111:6
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`108:17
`office 103:1
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`P
`p 105:1,1
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`111:17 113:5,7
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`particularly
`111:17
`parties 108:22
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`parts 110:20,22
`patent 103:1,2,7
`103:9,14,16
`104:5,6,12,13
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`0017
`
`
`
`Akiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015
`3
`
`104:19,20,22
`105:9 107:10
`108:12 116:23
`peachtree
`105:12 117:4
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`108:12 116:17
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`probably
`111:18
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`proceedings
`116:4
`product 112:25
`113:9
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`Q
`questions
`113:11,21
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`R
`
`r 105:1
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`108:15 113:15
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`113:19 114:1
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`112:14,17
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`108:16
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`rosenberry
`103:20 104:22
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`rosenberrys
`108:24
`rpr 103:25
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`ryan 105:21
`
`107:15
`S
`
`s 105:1
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`116:2
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`115:11
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`110:14,20,23
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`supervision
`116:13
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`T
`take 113:13
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`td 103:3,3,4,10
`103:10,11
`104:1,1,1,8,8,8
`104:15,15,15
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`109:14
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`111:10
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`111:2
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`117:9
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`117:7
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`104:22 116:9
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`116:14
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`tse 109:19,22
`112:6
`turn 109:19
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`0018
`
`
`
`Akiko Rosenberry
`
`February 17, 2015
`4
`
`typewritten
`116:12
`U
`unable 108:13
`understand
`109:10
`understanding
`110:13
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`V
`v 103:6,13 104:4
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`103:20 104:22
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`W
`w 116:22
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`105:5,17
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`
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`X
`
`x 106:1
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`Y
`yamamotoyama
`113:6
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`Z
`zero 112:7
`0
`010 109:24
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`1
`1 107:7 108:23
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`
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`2
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`4
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`5
`533 103:8
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`6
`6 104:5,12
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`7 103:8,15
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`8 104:23 107:2,5
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`9 113:15,16,17
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`117:1
`908 112:6
`
`202-220-4158
`
`Henderson Legal Services, Inc.
`www.hendersonlegalservices.com
`
`0019
`
`