SIGHTSOUND TECHNOLOGIES, LLC
`EXHIBIT 2176
`CBM2013-00020 (APPLE v. SIGHTSOUND)
`PAGE 000001
`
`In The Matter Of:
`
`APPLE INC.
`v.
` SIGHTSOUND TECHNOLOGIES, LLC
`
` ___________________________________________________
`
`JEFFREY ROBBIN - Vol. 1
`April 4, 2014
`
` ___________________________________________________
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`EXHIBIT 2176
`CBM2013-00020 (APPLE v. SIGHTSOUND)
`PAGE 000001
`
`In The Matter Of:
`
`APPLE INC.
`v.
` SIGHTSOUND TECHNOLOGIES, LLC
`
` ___________________________________________________
`
`JEFFREY ROBBIN - Vol. 1
`April 4, 2014
`
` ___________________________________________________
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`
`PAGE 000002
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
`
`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` ---o0o---
`
`APPLE INC.,
`
` Petitioner,
`
` vs. Case CBM2013-00020
` Case CBM2013-00023
` Patent 5,191,573
`SIGHTSOUND TECHNOLOGIES, LLC,
`
` Patent Owner.
`__________________________ /
`
` DEPOSITION OF
`
` JEFFREY ROBBIN
`
` ___________________________
`
` Friday, April 4, 2014
`
` OUTSIDE COUNSELS' EYES ONLY
`
`REPORTED BY: RACHEL FERRIER, CSR 6948
`
` (SF-001618)
`
`(800) 869-9132
`
`Merrill Corporation - San Francisco
`www.merrillcorp.com/law
`
`
`
`PAGE 000003
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
`
`Page 2
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` INDEX OF EXAMINATIONS
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`EXAMINATION BY PAGE
`
`Ms. Sklenar 4
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`Ms. Fukuda 114
`
` EXHIBITS MARKED FOR IDENTIFICATION
`
`NO. DESCRIPTION PAGE
`
`Exhibit 1 Declaration of Jeffrey Robbin
` in Case CBM2013-00020 36
`
`Exhibit 2 Declaration of Jeffrey Robbin
` in Case CBM2013-00023 36
`
`Exhibit 3 Excerpt from the book I, Steve
` Steve Jobs In His Own Words 57
`
`Exhibit 4 U.S. Patent 7,958,441 B2 76
`
`Exhibit 5 U.S. Patent 8,046,369 B2 78
`
`Exhibit 6 Article reprinted from May 7th,
` 1999 from The Wall Street
` Journal entitled "Two
` Entrepreneurs Try to Turn Net
` Patent Into a Blockbuster" 83
`
`Exhibit 7 U.S. Patent 7,797,242 B2 95
`
`Exhibit 8 Declaration and Power of
` Attorney for Original U.S.
` Patent Application, 10/833,267 99
`
`Exhibit 9 Patent Application entitled
` "Method and System for
` Network-Based Purchase and
` Distribution of Media" 102
`
` ---o0o---
`
`(800) 869-9132
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`Merrill Corporation - San Francisco
`www.merrillcorp.com/law
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`
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`PAGE 000004
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
`
`Page 3
`
` BE IT REMEMBERED that, pursuant to the laws
`
`governing the taking and use of depositions, on Friday,
`
`April 4, 2014, commencing at 9:03 a.m. thereof, at Ropes
`
`& Gray, 1900 University Avenue, 6th Floor, Palo Alto, CA
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`94303, before me, RACHEL FERRIER, a Certified Shorthand
`
`Reporter, personally appeared JEFFREY ROBBIN, called as
`
`a witness by the Patent Owner, who, being by me first
`
`duly sworn, was thereupon examined as a witness in said
`
`action.
`
` APPEARANCES OF COUNSEL
`
`For Petitioner APPLE INC.:
`
` ROPES & GRAY LLP
` BY: CHING-LEE FUKUDA, Attorney at Law
` 1211 Avenue of the Americas
` New York, NY 10036
` Telephone: 212.596.9336
` Email: Ching-Lee.Fukuda@ropesgray.com
`
`For Patent Owner SIGHTSOUND TECHNOLOGIES, LLC:
`
` ARNOLD & PORTER LLP
` BY: JENNIFER A. SKLENAR, Attorney at Law
` 777 S. Figueroa Street, 44th Floor
` Los Angeles, CA 90017
` Telephone: 213.243.4027
` Email: Jennifer.Sklenar@aporter.com
`
` ---o0o---
`
`(800) 869-9132
`
`Merrill Corporation - San Francisco
`www.merrillcorp.com/law
`
`
`
`PAGE 000005
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
`
`Page 4
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` PALO ALTO, CALIFORNIA
`
` FRIDAY, APRIL 4, 2014
`
` 9:03 A.M.
`
` ---o0o---
`
` JEFFREY ROBBIN
`
` ____________________________________
`
` called as a witness, having been first duly
`
` sworn, was examined and testified as follows:
`
` ---o0o---
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MS. SKLENAR:
`
` Q Good morning.
`
` A Mr. Robbin, my name is Jennifer Sklenar. I'm
`
`an attorney for SightSound, and I want to ask you some
`
`questions here today.
`
` Q First of all, could you state your full name
`
`for the record.
`
` A Jeffrey Lowell Robbin.
`
` Q Have you used any other names in the past?
`
` A No.
`
` Q You are employed at Apple; correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q What is your current title?
`
` A Vice president of iTunes.
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`www.merrillcorp.com/law
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`PAGE 000006
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
`
`Page 5
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` Q Have you been deposed before, Mr. Robbin?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q How many times?
`
` A I can't remember.
`
` Q Approximately how many times have you been
`
`previously deposed?
`
` A Probably less than ten.
`
` Q When was the last time you had your deposition
`
`taken?
`
` A I don't remember.
`
` Q Can you give me an approximate date?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Within the last couple years?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q What has been the general subject matter of
`
`your prior deposition testimony?
`
` MS. FUKUDA: Before the witness answers, can I
`
`just put on the record: There's an understanding
`
`between the parties here that we will try to avoid the
`
`necessity of revealing any Apple confidential
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`information during this deposition, so to the extent
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`that I think a question may call for that or the witness
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`believes that some confidential information might be
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`implicated, we would like to note that on the record.
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`We have a temporary agreement that it could be marked as
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`Merrill Corporation - San Francisco
`www.merrillcorp.com/law
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`PAGE 000007
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
`
`Page 6
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`outside counsels' eyes only for today's purposes until
`
`the parties work out a heightened PO.
`
` MS. SKLENAR: I need to ask questions to get
`
`information about -- if you want to designate it, that's
`
`fine.
`
` MS. FUKUDA: My understanding, based on
`
`correspondence with your side, is you do not believe
`
`your questioning would delve into Apple confidential
`
`information.
`
` MS. SKLENAR: I can't say what you guys think
`
`is Apple confidential. I'm going to ask my questions,
`
`and you can take it question by question.
`
` MS. FUKUDA: Let's do that.
`
` Go ahead.
`
` THE WITNESS: It's generally over iTunes and
`
`what I do at Apple.
`
`BY MS. SKLENAR:
`
` Q Can you be more specific as to the subject
`
`matter of your prior depositions?
`
` A It's generally -- I mean, what I do at Apple in
`
`the last 14 years has typically been around iTunes, and
`
`so usually I'm being deposed relating to matters around
`
`iTunes.
`
` Q Generally, for your prior depositions, were
`
`these taken in patent litigation matters?
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`www.merrillcorp.com/law
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`
`
`PAGE 000008
`
`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
`
`Page 7
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Have you been deposed for matters other than
`
`patent litigation matters?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q What kind of matters were those?
`
` A Contract.
`
` Q Can you describe, generally, what type of
`
`contract issues?
`
` A I was involved in a lawsuit with the Beetles.
`
` Q And over what?
`
` A A contract between Apple and the Beetles.
`
` Q For the patent litigation matters in which you
`
`were previously deposed, did those litigations relate to
`
`the Music Store component of iTunes?
`
` A I don't remember. I think some did.
`
` Q Do you know who the parties were to those
`
`litigations?
`
` A I don't.
`
` Q You can't name any of the parties in the
`
`litigations in which you were previously deposed?
`
` A You know, the honest truth is I try to put this
`
`stuff out of my mind when I'm done with it.
`
` Q Okay. Fair enough.
`
` Have you ever testified in a proceeding other
`
`than a deposition?
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`www.merrillcorp.com/law
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`PAGE 000009
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 8
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` A Yes.
`
` Q What kind of proceeding?
`
` A The Beetles lawsuit.
`
` Q You testified in court for purposes of that
`
`proceeding?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Have you testified in any other proceedings
`
`other than at deposition or for purposes of the trial
`
`that you just mentioned?
`
` A I don't remember.
`
` Q Have you ever been a party to a litigation?
`
` A Personally?
`
` Q Yes.
`
` A No.
`
` Q Well, it sounds like you have some prior
`
`experience with deposition, which is to go over some of
`
`the procedural matters. I'm obviously going to ask you
`
`questions to try to get your best answer under oath.
`
` You understand you are under penalty of
`
`perjury?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q If you don't hear a question or understand a
`
`question and you need clarification, I would ask that
`
`you let me know and ask for that clarification so we
`
`have a clear record.
`
`(800) 869-9132
`
`Merrill Corporation - San Francisco
`www.merrillcorp.com/law
`
`
`
`PAGE 000010
`
`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
`
`Page 9
`
` Is that okay?
`
` A Sure.
`
` Q Sometimes your attorney will be making
`
`objections, and as long as she doesn't instruct you not
`
`to answer, I would ask that you go ahead and answer the
`
`question.
`
` Is that okay?
`
` A Sure.
`
` Q What, if anything, did you do to prepare to
`
`testify here today?
`
` A Met with counsel.
`
` Q With whom did you meet?
`
` A Andrew -- I don't remember.
`
` MS. FUKUDA: Song.
`
` THE WITNESS: Andrew Song.
`
`BY MS. SKLENAR:
`
` Q Who is Mr. Song?
`
` A Apple attorney.
`
` Q When did you meet with Mr. Song?
`
` A Yesterday.
`
` Q For how long did you meet with him?
`
` A I don't know, four hours, three hours. Three
`
`hours.
`
` Q Did anyone else attend the meeting? You are
`
`gesturing, just to be clear.
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`Merrill Corporation - San Francisco
`www.merrillcorp.com/law
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`PAGE 000011
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
`
`Page 10
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` A Sorry. Ching-Lee. My attorney, Ching-Lee.
`
` Q We want to get a clear record for the court
`
`reporter, so we need to have you answer audibly and not
`
`shake your head "yes" or "no."
`
` Is that okay?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q We need to not speak over one another. I will
`
`try hard not to do that, but I would ask you not to do
`
`that as well.
`
` A Okay.
`
` Q Did you review any documents during your
`
`preparation yesterday that refreshed your recollection
`
`as to events?
`
` MS. FUKUDA: I'm going to caution the witness.
`
` You can answer that "yes" or "no," but do not
`
`reveal the content of any documents that were reviewed
`
`as a result of selection by counsel.
`
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
`
`BY MS. SKLENAR:
`
` Q You did review documents that refreshed your
`
`recollection as to events?
`
` MS. FUKUDA: Oh, I'm sorry. I did not catch --
`
`you may answer that question as a "yes" or "no."
`
` THE WITNESS: Yes.
`
`BY MS. SKLENAR:
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`www.merrillcorp.com/law
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`PAGE 000012
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
`
`Page 11
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` Q What documents were those?
`
` MS. FUKUDA: I just want to make sure the
`
`witness understands.
`
` Would you repeat the question, because I missed
`
`that last clause.
`
`BY MS. SKLENAR:
`
` Q What documents did you review in preparation
`
`for your deposition that refreshed your recollection as
`
`to events?
`
` MS. FUKUDA: You can answer that question if
`
`there's a document that refreshed your recollection.
`
` THE WITNESS: It was my declaration.
`
`BY MS. SKLENAR:
`
` Q Did you review any other documents that
`
`refreshed your recollection as to events?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q What were those?
`
` A I reviewed some patents that were referenced by
`
`my declaration.
`
` Q Did you review any other documents that
`
`refreshed your recollection as to events?
`
` THE WITNESS: Can I ask you a question?
`
`BY MS. SKLENAR:
`
` Q I need you to answer my question. If you have
`
`a question about a privilege concern --
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`PAGE 000013
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 12
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` A It's a privilege concern.
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` Q Then you may confer with your counsel.
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` MS. FUKUDA: Let's go outside.
`
` MS. SKLENAR: Let's go off the record.
`
` (Recess taken from 9:09 to 9:10 a.m.)
`
`BY MS. SKLENAR:
`
` Q Mr. Robbin, did you review any other documents
`
`that refreshed your recollection to events other than
`
`what you have already testified to?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Did you talk to anyone in the course of
`
`preparing for your deposition other than the two
`
`attorneys you have already identified?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q With whom did you speak?
`
` A Dave Heller.
`
` Q And who is Mr. Heller?
`
` A Dave Heller works for me on the iTunes team.
`
` Q And what is his position?
`
` A He runs the iTunes client engineering team.
`
` Q Do you know his formal title?
`
` A Director.
`
` Q When did you talk to Mr. Heller?
`
` A Yesterday afternoon.
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` Q And what did you talk to him about?
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`www.merrillcorp.com/law
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`PAGE 000014
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 13
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` A I asked him a question about a feature of
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`SoundJam.
`
` Q What feature was that?
`
` A It's a menu in the application that links out
`
`to other websites.
`
` Q And what specific discussion did you and
`
`Mr. Heller have about that feature?
`
` A I was asking him how it worked.
`
` Q And what did he tell you?
`
` A He told me how it worked.
`
` Q How does it work?
`
` A It links out to a web browser.
`
` Q And for what purpose does it do that?
`
` A To let you go get music from other websites or
`
`from websites.
`
` Q Have you testified on the record now to the
`
`full substance of your conversation with Mr. Heller?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Yesterday?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Did you speak to anyone else in preparation for
`
`your deposition other than the individuals you have
`
`identified?
`
` A No.
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` Q Did you do anything else to prepare to testify
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`www.merrillcorp.com/law
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`PAGE 000015
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 14
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`here today other than what you have already testified
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`to?
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` A No.
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` Q Have you previously been deposed for purposes
`
`of the litigation between Apple and SightSound?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Are you taking any medication or have you
`
`consumed any alcohol or any other substances that would
`
`affect your ability to testify truthfully here today?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Do you have any mental or physical illness that
`
`would affect your ability to testify truthfully?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Is there anything you can think of that might
`
`impair your ability to give full and accurate testimony
`
`here today?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Where did you go to high school?
`
` A Allen Park High School.
`
` Q In what state?
`
` A Illinois.
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` Q What year did you graduate?
`
` A 1987.
`
` Q What has been your educational background since
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`high school?
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`Merrill Corporation - San Francisco
`www.merrillcorp.com/law
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`PAGE 000016
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 15
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` A I went to the University of Iowa for
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`undergraduate, and then I went to the University of
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`Illinois for an MBA.
`
` Q Well, let's start with the University of Iowa.
`
` During what years did you attend?
`
` A 1988 to 1991.
`
` Q And what degree did you obtain?
`
` A I got a Bachelor of Science with a -- in
`
`computer science and a minor in business.
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` Q And you said you went there 1988 through 1991;
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`is that correct?
`
` A I think that's right, or is it 1987 to '91?
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` Q Did you take a break between high school and
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`college?
`
` A I did not.
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` Q And what years did you attend the University of
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`Illinois?
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` A Right out of the University of Iowa, so after
`
`four years of Iowa, it was two years of Illinois.
`
` Q And you said you obtained an MBA; is that
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`correct?
`
` A Yes.
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` Q Have you obtained any other degrees?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Have you done any other formal course work
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 16
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`other than as part of your Bachelor of Science and MBA?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Can you just briefly describe for me your
`
`employment history prior to Apple?
`
` A Apple is the only full-time job I had out of
`
`college.
`
` Q You started as an intern at Apple in 1992;
`
`correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Did you have any sort of employment prior to
`
`that?
`
` A Odd part-time jobs or high school jobs.
`
` Q Did you have any jobs working in an engineering
`
`capacity prior to starting at Apple in 1992?
`
` A I worked for myself.
`
` Q You say you worked for yourself.
`
` What do you mean by that?
`
` A Well, I was a computer programmer, and so I
`
`wrote programs, and I tried to sell those programs via
`
`third party.
`
` Q Starting with your internship at Apple in 1992,
`
`what, specifically, were you hired to do?
`
` A Well, as an intern, you have a little bit of
`
`flexibility, so I was hired as an intern. I ended up
`
`working in the operating system team at Apple doing QA
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 17
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`testing.
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` Q You were working on a specific product?
`
` A Yeah.
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` Q What was that?
`
` A It was the -- it was part of the operating
`
`system called a microkernel.
`
` Q And during what years did you work on the
`
`microkernel?
`
` A Actually, it was also a -- I also did testing
`
`of 68k-processor emulator. That was the fun part.
`
` Q During what years did you work on the
`
`microkernel?
`
` A Well, the internship was over the summer while
`
`I was getting my MBA.
`
` Q So during your internship, you worked on the
`
`microkernel and the 68k-processor emulator that you
`
`described; is that correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Did you do anything else during your internship
`
`other than what you have already described?
`
` A No.
`
` Q And then when did you return to Apple
`
`full-time?
`
` A In 1993.
`
` Q What were you hired to do?
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 18
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` A I worked as an engineer on the microkernel.
`
` Q And that was the same project that you worked
`
`under in your internship?
`
` A It was the same teams.
`
` Q What was your title?
`
` A Engineer.
`
` Q Now, if I understand your background correctly,
`
`you were at Apple from 1993 through 1997 initially;
`
`correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q What titles did you hold in the -- from the
`
`1993-through-1997 time period?
`
` A Engineer, senior engineer, technical lead -- I
`
`think that was it.
`
` Q So while you were an engineer, did you work on
`
`projects other than the microkernel that you have
`
`described?
`
` A The -- while I was in -- I can't remember which
`
`title I had when, so I don't want to distinguish by
`
`title, but the projects that I generally worked on were
`
`the microkernel, and then that was the beginnings of
`
`trying to do an operating system, which was code-named
`
`Copeland. That was also called Mac OS 8, and so I spent
`
`my time the first few years doing whatever I could to
`
`help that project. So it was mostly around Copeland's
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`PAGE 000020
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 19
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`operating system.
`
` Q So prior to your departure in 1997, did you
`
`work on any other projects other than what you have
`
`already described?
`
` A Yes. In -- at the last -- I want to say it was
`
`the last year -- but I'm not exactly sure of the exact
`
`timing -- I worked on a project that was called the Blue
`
`Box, and this is a cool project. It was about trying to
`
`make Mac OS applications run on top of whatever new
`
`operating system without the developer having to do
`
`anything special.
`
` Q Did you work on any other projects from the
`
`1993-through-1997 time period other than the microkernel
`
`and the Blue Box?
`
` A And Copeland.
`
` Q And Copeland.
`
` A No.
`
` Q To whom did you report?
`
` A From the 1993-through-then-'97 time period, I
`
`don't think I can remember all my managers. I was hired
`
`in by Bill Bruffey, and when I left, I was working for
`
`someone named Mark Sinakin (phonetic).
`
` Q Do you remember anyone else that you reported
`
`to in the 1993-through-1997 time period?
`
` A I don't remember who I went to from in between,
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`PAGE 000021
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 20
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`no, but I was doing the same job.
`
` Q Did anyone report to you during the
`
`1993-through-1997 time period?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Were you in a specific group during that time
`
`period?
`
` A It was the kernel team.
`
` Q And how, generally, was Apple organized during
`
`that time period as far as different teams?
`
` A I don't understand the question.
`
` Q Well, did Apple have different teams that
`
`worked on various projects? You said you were on the
`
`kernel team.
`
` Were there other teams?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q How many other teams, approximately, were
`
`there?
`
` A I have no idea.
`
` Q Can you give me some sort of estimate?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Did the kernel team fall within a larger
`
`overall department?
`
` A It did.
`
` Q What was that?
`
` A The operating system.
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 21
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` Q And then you left Apple in 1997; is that
`
`correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Now, if I understand it correctly, Steve Jobs
`
`returned to Apple in 1996; is that right?
`
` A I don't remember exactly when he came back.
`
` Q Did Mr. Jobs return to Apple before your
`
`departure in 1997?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Did you work with Mr. Jobs prior to your
`
`departure in 1997?
`
` A I met him one time.
`
` Q And under what circumstances did you meet him?
`
` A I met him to ask him some questions about the
`
`operating system.
`
` Q And what types of questions did you ask him; do
`
`you recall?
`
` A I don't remember. It was a long time ago.
`
` Q What was -- was there any reporting
`
`relationship between you and Mr. Jobs before your
`
`departure in 1997?
`
` A No.
`
` Q Why did you leave Apple in 1997?
`
` A I had been through some very difficult times at
`
`Apple, and I was ready to take a break.
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`PAGE 000023
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 22
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` Q What did you do when you left?
`
` A I started out doing nothing.
`
` Q And -- but eventually you did something; is
`
`that correct?
`
` A I did a lot of things. I mean, can you be more
`
`specific about what you are looking for?
`
` Q Eventually you started doing something in a
`
`work capacity; correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q What did you do?
`
` A I started a company.
`
` Q What company did you start?
`
` A I called it SoundStep.
`
` Q And did you start that company with other
`
`individuals?
`
` A I don't remember how I incorporated. In the
`
`end, there were three of us in the company.
`
` Q Who were those individuals?
`
` A Dave Heller and Bill Kincaid.
`
` Q And if I understand it correctly, you worked
`
`on -- at SoundStep until you returned to Apple in 2000;
`
`is that right?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Did you have any other employment between the
`
`time that you departed Apple in 1997 to the time that
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 23
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`you returned in 2000?
`
` A No.
`
` Q What did you found SoundStep to do?
`
` MS. FUKUDA: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: Yeah, I mean, that's a little --
`
`I guess that's just kind of vague. We did lots of
`
`things, so I'm not sure what you are looking for.
`
`BY MS. SKLENAR:
`
` Q Well, what was the purpose of SoundStep as a
`
`company?
`
` A To create software programs and sell them.
`
` Q How many different software programs did you
`
`work on there?
`
` A I --
`
` MS. FUKUDA: Objection to form.
`
` THE WITNESS: I think we created two. I don't
`
`remember if the -- I had two projects I was sort of
`
`dabbling with at the time, and I don't remember if the
`
`other one was in SoundStep or if I was just doing it
`
`personally. It's not really relevant.
`
`BY MS. SKLENAR:
`
` Q Well, what were the two projects that you are
`
`thinking of?
`
` A One was some kind of a little utility for
`
`accelerating applications on the Mac. I don't even
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 24
`
`remember if we actually did anything with it, but I
`
`remember working on it. And the other was SoundJam.
`
` Q Is it fair to say that SoundJam was the primary
`
`thing that you worked on at SoundStep?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And what is SoundJam?
`
` A SoundJam was an MP3 -- among other things, it
`
`was an MP3 player for the Mac, but it did a lot of
`
`things.
`
` Q What else did it do?
`
` A So SoundJam was a comprehensive program for
`
`managing your music in a playlist. It would let you
`
`copy songs onto third-party MP3 devices. It would let
`
`you encode digital music from CDs. It did a lot of
`
`things, mostly around digital audio.
`
` Q Was -- did you work on what became SoundJam
`
`prior to the time that you founded SoundStep?
`
` A I don't -- I mean, it was during those -- only
`
`during those couple of years. I don't remember if --
`
`the exact date of incorporation and whether or not we
`
`had started a little bit of coding before it was
`
`incorporated or not.
`
` Q But you didn't work on SoundJam while you were
`
`at Apple the first time?
`
` A No.
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 25
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` Q How far did you get in the development process
`
`of SoundJam while you were at SoundStep?
`
` A I'm not sure what you mean by how -- I don't
`
`know what you mean by how far in the development
`
`process?
`
` Q In other words, did you get to a beta version?
`
`Did you release the product commercially?
`
` A We released the product commercially.
`
` Q And what was the name of the product that you
`
`released commercially?
`
` A SoundJam MP. Also, I think we called it
`
`SoundJam MP Plus. There were two versions.
`
` Q And how well did it sell?
`
` A I don't know how you define "how well."
`
` Q How do you define it?
`
` A I think we had a decent start of a business.
`
` Q So you were selling software; is that correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Do you know how many copies of software were
`
`sold?
`
` A I don't remember.
`
` Q Do you have an estimate?
`
` A I don't.
`
` Q How much were you selling SoundJam for?
`
` A I don't remember. Back then, software in
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 26
`
`general sold in the tens of dollars, but I don't
`
`remember the exact prices.
`
` Q Do you know how much revenue the company made
`
`prior to its acquisition by Apple?
`
` A No, I don't remember.
`
` Q Do you have an estimate?
`
` A No.
`
` Q You identified two different individuals that
`
`you say you worked with at SoundStep, Mr. Heller and
`
`Mr. Kincaid; correct?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q What is Mr. Heller's background?
`
` A What do you mean?
`
` Q What's his educational background?
`
` A I don't know.
`
` Q You have no idea what his educational
`
`background is?
`
` A He went to the University of Arizona.
`
` Q And do you know what degrees he holds?
`
` A No, I don't.
`
` Q Is he an engineer?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And what about Mr. Kincaid; what's his
`
`educational background?
`
` A I don't remember the school he went to.
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 27
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` Q Do you know what type of degree he holds?
`
` A He has -- at least went to college.
`
` Q Do you know whether he is an engineer as well?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q How did you meet Mr. Heller?
`
` A I met Dave -- well, the first time I met him in
`
`person was at Togos restaurant in Cupertino when I came
`
`out to California for the first time, but I had met him
`
`online before that because he had done a software
`
`product that had some compatibility problems with one of
`
`my software products. His was wrong.
`
` Q And did he also work at Apple prior to your
`
`departure in 1997?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And what about Mr. Kincaid; how did you meet
`
`him?
`
` A I met him at Apple.
`
` Q In what capacity did you meet him?
`
` A As an engineer.
`
` Q Was there a specific project for which you met
`
`him?
`
` A Copeland.
`
` Q Now, you returned to Apple in September of
`
`2000; correct?
`
` A Yes.
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`PAGE 000029
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`JEFFREY ROBBIN - 4/4/2014
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`Page 28
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` Q And did Mr. Heller return as well?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q And did Mr. Kincaid return as well?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q Did your -- did you become part of a specific
`
`group there upon your return?
`
` A Yes.
`
` Q What was that?
`
` A We were brought back to Apple to -- what ended
`
`up -- to turn it into what ended up being iTunes, so we
`
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