Transcript of the Testimony of Edward Yourdon
`
`Date: May 16, 2013
`
`Case: CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline
`Technologies, Inc.
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`
`CRS EXHIBIT 1013
`CRS v. Frontline, CBM2012-00005
`
`
`
`Date: May 16, 2013
`
`Case: CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline
`Technologies, Inc.
`
`)))
`
`~Lf I f[~[~~l
`
`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
`Phone: 202-347-3700
`Fax: 202-737-3638
`Email: info@acefederal.com
`Internet: www .acefederal.com
`
`CRS EXHIBIT 1013
`CRS v. Frontline, CBM2012-00005
`
`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
`
`BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
`*
`
`*
`
`*
`
`CRS ADVANCED
`
`TECHNOLOGIES,
`
`INC.,
`
`Petitioner
`
`VS
`
`Patent of FRONTLINE
`
`TECHNOLOGIES,
`
`INC.,
`
`Patent Owner
`
`CASE CBM2012-00005
`
`Patent 6,675,151
`
`*
`*
`*
`Oral deposition of EDWARD YOURDON,
`
`taken at
`
`Woodcock Washburn LLP, 12th Floor, Cira Centre, 2929
`
`Arch Street, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19104, on
`
`Thursday, May 16, 2013, beginning at 1:01 p.m. before
`
`Lisa V. Feissner, RDR, CRR, CLR, Registered Diplomate
`
`I
`I
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`Reporter and Notary Public in and for the Commonwealth
`
`of Pennsylvania.
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`1-800-3 3 6-6646
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`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
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`202-347-3700
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`Page 2
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`A P P E A RAN C E S:
`
`E. ROBERT YOCHES, ESQUIRE
`
`FINNEGAN, HENDERSON, FARABOW,
`
`GARRETT & DUNNER, LLP
`
`901 New York Avenue, N.W.
`
`Washington, DC 20001-4113
`
`Representing the Petitioner
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc.
`
`JOHN E. McGLYNN, ESQUIRE
`
`WOODCOCK WASHBURN, LLP
`
`Cira Centre, 12th Floor
`
`2929 Arch Street
`
`Philadelphia, Pennsylvania 19104-2891
`
`••
`
`Representing the Patent Owner
`
`Frontline Technologies, Inc.
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`A L S 0
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`P R E S E N T:
`
`Sarah Dukrnan
`
`1-800-336-6646
`
`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
`
`202-347-3700
`
`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`Page 3
`
`(It is hereby stipulated and agreed by and
`
`between counsel for the respective parties that
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`sealing, certification, and filing are waived, and
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`that all objections, except as to the form of the
`
`question, are reserved until the time of trial.)
`
`EDWARD YOURDON,
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`having been first duly sworn, was
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`examined and testified as follows:
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`E X A M I N A T I 0 N
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`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Good afternoon, Mr. Yourdon.
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`Good afternoon.
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`I know you know what a deposition is, so
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`why don't we just jump right into the middle of it,
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`unless you've got any questions. This deposition will
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`be just like the other deposition that you gave in
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`this case, so same rules.
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`Now, what I'd like to do lS hand you a
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`document --
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`MR. McGLYNN:
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`Just before we get started,
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`I just -- on the record I just wanted to make sure
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`that it shows that we -- the witness has requested the
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent ofFront1ine Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`opportunity to read and to review his transcript.
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`MR. YOCHES: Okay. Anything else?
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`MR. McGLYNN: That's it. Sorry.
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`MR. YOCHES: No problem.
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`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`I hand you a document that's been marked
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`already as Frontline Exhibit 2003 (handing). And I
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`ask if you recognize this exhibit.
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`A.
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`Q.
`
`Yes,
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`I do.
`
`Okay. And is this a Declaration that you
`
`signed ln March of this year?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`Yes, it is.
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`And you are acting as an expert for
`
`Frontline; is that correct?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`Yes, that's correct.
`
`Okay. Now, in your Declaration, if you
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`would turn to page 4, specifically paragraph 8, do you
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`see a reference to a "Petition for Transitional
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`Post-Grant Review Under Section 18 of the Leahy-Smith
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`America Invents Act"? Do you see that?
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`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
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`I do.
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`And that's a document that you reviewed?
`
`'
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`1-800-336-6646
`
`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
`
`202-347-3700
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`
`
`Edward Yourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16, 2013
`
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`Page 5
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`A.
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`That is the document that I reviewed as
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`the basis for my Declaration, that's correct.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And there's a document in this case
`
`which I may not show you, but it is a decision from
`
`the United States Patent and Trademark Office, Patent
`
`Trial and Appeal Board, which is the decision, The
`
`Institution of Covered Business Method Review. Did
`
`you review that document?
`
`A.
`
`I don't recall that.
`
`I would have to take
`
`a look at it to see if it's one that I reviewed.
`
`Q.
`
`All right. Let me mark it and just see
`
`I'm not asking you to review it now;
`
`I just want to
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`know whether or not you did consider it.
`
`MR. YOCHES:
`
`I believe this is going to be
`
`1012.
`
`It will be Petitioner's Exhibit 1012.
`
`(Frontline Exhibit 1012 was marked for
`
`identification.)
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`And all I'd like to know, Mr. Yourdon, is
`
`whether this is a document that you reviewed in
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`preparation of the Declaration which is Exhibit
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`Frontline Exhibit 2003.
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`1-800-336-6646
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`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`Page 6
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`.\
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`A.
`
`Q.
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`No,
`
`I did not review this document.
`
`Okay. That's fine. We can set it aside.
`
`If we can go back to your Declaration in
`
`2003.
`
`I'd like to direct you to page six, paragraph
`
`12. And let me see if I can assist you here. This is
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`a document, if you can mark it, it's already been
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`7 marked as Exhibit Petitioner's Exhibit 1001.
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`unfortunately did not get a copy of that. This is
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`the -- strike that.
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`MR. YOCHES:
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`1002 is the Ex Parte
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`Reexamination Certificate. So this is -- if you can
`
`mark that Exhibit 1002.
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`It's already been marked, but
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`I don't have that copy of it here.
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`(Frontline Exhibit 1002, as previously
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`marked and identified, was re-marked.)
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`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`You have before you Exhibit 1002,
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`Mr. Yourdon, just really for the purposes of having
`
`the claims set out. And you don't have to use it if
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`you don't want to, but -- I was giving it to you for
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`your benefit.
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`A.
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`Oh,
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`I see. Thank you.
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`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`Page 7
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`Q.
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`And so in paragraph 12, you're referring
`
`to Claim 3, and you say you "understand that the 'one
`
`or more computers' must be specially programmed and
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`configured to cooperate with a specially programmed
`
`'website,' and interface with the 'communication
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`links,' in order to provide the specific series of
`
`operations" --
`
`(A discussion was held off the record.)
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`Let me start again. The second sentence
`
`of that paragraph says, "Rather, with respect to claim
`
`3, I understand that the 'one or more computers' must
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`be specially programmed and configured to cooperate
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`with a specially programmed 'website,' and interface
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`with the 'communication links,' in order to provide
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`the specific series of operations that are recited in
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`the claim."
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`Do you see that sentence? It's the second
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`sentence in paragraph 12.
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`A.
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`Q.
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`Yes,
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`I do.
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`Okay. Now, you begin that sentence with,
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`you "understand." What's the basis of your
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`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
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`202-347-3700
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`~~
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`Page 8
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`understanding?
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`A.
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`The basis of my understanding is the
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`reading of Claim Number 3 in this Exhibit 1002 that
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`you've given me.
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`Q.
`
`Okay.
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`So that understanding has come from
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`the claim itself?
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`MR. McGLYNN: Objection to the form.
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`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
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`A.
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`Is that correct?
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`It has come from the claim as also
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`supported by the specification and the entire patent
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`'151 language.
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`Q.
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`You used a word in that sentence --
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`"specially programmed" and "configured" are the words,
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`"specially programmed" and "configured." Do you see
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`those words, with regard to the "one or more
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`computers"?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`Yes, I do see that.
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`What does the word "specially" mean in
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`that sentence?
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`A.
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`It means specifically or deliberately or
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`consciously. Those are the three synonyms that I can
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`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
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`Page 9
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`think of that I had in mind.
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`Q.
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`I guess is there another type of
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`programming that is not specific programming that
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`you're distinguishing that?
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`(Pause.)
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`No.
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`So would the sentence also be correct if
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`A.
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`Q.
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`it read, "must be programmed and configured to
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`cooperate," etcetera, etcetera? Would there be a
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`difference in the meaning of those sentences?
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`(Pause.)
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`A.
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`I felt that it was a word that had to be
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`there to avoid or prevent the possible interpretation
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`on the part of the reader that the programming might
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`have somehow occurred without it having been a
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`conscious, deliberate activity.
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`Q.
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`Can you give me an example of how
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`programming occurs that's not a conscious, deliberate
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`activity?
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`A.
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`I cannot think of one myself from my
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`perspective of working in the field, but I would be
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`concerned about the possible belief or assumption on
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`Edward Y om·don
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
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`Page 10
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`the part of a nontechnical reader of my Declaration
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`that a computer could somehow be programmed in
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`something other than a deliberate fashion.
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`So I felt
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`that it was important to emphasize that conscious,
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`deliberate activity by putting the word "specially" ln
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`there.
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`Q.
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`Okay.
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`So did you choose the word
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`"specially" to address a nontechnical reader?
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`Is that
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`what you're saying?
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`MR. McGLYNN: Objection to the form.
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`THE WITNESS:
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`I intended it to cover all
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`readers and to avoid any possibility of
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`BY MR. YOCHES:
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`Q.
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`Okay. When you used the words "specially
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`programmed," were you suggesting that it had to be
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`programmed with some special computer language?
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`A.
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`I'm not sure what you mean by "special
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`computer language."
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`Q.
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`Well, there are different computer
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`languages, correct?
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`A.
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`That is correct.
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`Edward Yourdon
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`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`I
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`Page 11
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`Q.
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`When you used the word "specially" in
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`that, referring to one or more computers being
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`specially programmed, were you indicating that the
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`programming could only use some of those computer
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`languages but not others?
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`A.
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`Q.
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`No,
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`I was not.
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`Okay.
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`I'm sure I'm going to use the wrong
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`word here, but there are also different programming
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`philosophies, are there not? Two different
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`programmers might come about the same problem
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`different ways?
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`MR. McGLYNN: Objection to form.
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`THE WITNESS:
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`I don't understand what you
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`mean by "philosophies" in that context.
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`BY MR. YOCHES:
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`Q.
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`There's something called structured
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`programming?
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`Is that a term you know?
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`A.
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`Yes, that's a term I know. Yes, there is
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`such a --
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`Q.
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`And there's ways of programming that
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`aren't structured programming, correct?
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`A.
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`Yes, that's correct.
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`Edward Y om·don
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`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
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`May 16,2013
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`1/
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`Page 12
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`Q.
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`What would you call structured
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`programming?
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`It wouldn't be a programming philosophy?
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`MR. McGLYNN: Object to the form.
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`BY MR. YOCHES:
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`Q.
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`I'm just trying to use a word that you'd
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`be familiar with.
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`A.
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`I don't think I would call it a
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`programming philosophy.
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`It's a particular approach or
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`discipline of programming.
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`Q.
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`Okay.
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`So if I use "programming approach,"
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`is that a word that you're more familiar with?
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`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
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`THE WITNESS:
`
`It's a phrase that I am more
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`familiar with, but it's still a fairly broad phrase.
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`So depending on the context that you have in mind for
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`whatever question you're formulating here, I'll do my
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`best to answer it.
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`BY MR. YOCHES:
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`Q.
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`Oh, okay. Well, my question was, when you
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`used the term "specially programmed" in relationship
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`to one or more computers, were you suggesting that the
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`programming had to use only some but not all
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`202-34 7-3700
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`Edward Yourdon
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`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
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`programming approaches?
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`May 16,2013
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`Page 13
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`A.
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`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I was not.
`
`Okay. Were you -- when you used the word
`
`"specially" in this context, are we talking about
`
`intending to limit the types of computers that could
`
`be used?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`No,
`
`I was not.
`
`Now, later on in that sentence you
`
`referred to a "specially programmed 'website.'" Do
`
`you see that?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`I see that phrase.
`
`And again -- first, tell me what you mean
`
`by a "website."
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`In this context?
`
`Yes.
`
`In the context of this paragraph?
`
`Yes.
`
`I mean a computer system that contains
`
`information organized into units that can be retrieved
`
`or displayed or updated from some other location.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And is it something that's
`
`accessible on the Internet, or not?
`
`I
`
`• ••
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`I
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`1-800-336-6646
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`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
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`202-347-3700
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`Page 14
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`Okay, let me rephrase it. When you use
`
`the term "website," are you limiting it to something
`
`that's accessible on the Internet?
`
`A.
`
`No, I'm not. The Internet form of
`
`"website" is certainly one of the more common examples
`
`or forms, but I was not intending to limit it.
`
`Q.
`
`And in your original definition, you used
`
`the word "system," I think, the website is a system,
`
`and then you went on in some detail. When you used
`
`the word "system," are you suggesting that a website
`
`includes hardware?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`I am.
`
`And when you used the term "specially
`
`programmed" as modifying "website," what did the word
`
`"specially" add there to the word "programmed"?
`
`A.
`
`I meant it in the same sense that I used
`
`the word "specially programmed" in the earlier part of
`
`the sentence, and that is something that was
`
`consciously and deliberately programmed.
`
`Q.
`
`Now, in that same paragraph in the next
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`••
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`I -800-336-6646
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`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
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`202-347-3700
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`Page 15
`
`sentence you referred to Claim 6, and again you use
`
`the word "understand." You say, "With respect to
`
`claim 6,
`
`I understand that the 'database' has been
`
`specially formatted to contain the data as recited in
`
`the claim, and the 'one or more computers' must be
`
`I
`I
`I
`I
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`specially programmed and configured to cooperate with
`
`a specially programmed
`
`'website' and interface with
`
`the 'communication links' in order to provide the
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`specific series of operations that are recited in the
`
`claim.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`So that's the sentence I'm referring to.
`
`Yes,
`
`I see that.
`
`And when you used the term "understand,"
`
`was that again based upon your reading of the claim
`
`I
`
`and the rest of the patent? It's Claim 6.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes, that's correct.
`
`Now, when you use the term "database" in
`
`this sentence, what do you mean? What is a database?
`
`A.
`
`A database is a collection of information
`
`that is organized in a specific fashion so that groups
`
`of specific data elements are gathered together or
`
`considered as part of a larger unit, and also such
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`1-800-3 3 6-6646
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`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
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`202-347-3700
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`... ·
`
`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`Page 16
`
`that they are related to, they have relationships with
`
`other groups of data elements.
`
`Q.
`
`Now, are there different types of
`
`databases?
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: Yes, there are different
`
`types of databases.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`And when you referred to "database" here,
`
`and you're talking about Claim 6, were you intending
`
`to indicate a specific type of database?
`
`A.
`
`Even though I certainly did answer your
`
`previous question, I'm now concerned that the question
`
`you've just posed is somewhat vague and ambiguous.
`
`I'm wondering if you can rephrase it perhaps.
`
`Q.
`
`Let me try something. Are you aware of
`
`something called a relational database?
`
`A.
`
`I'm aware that that is a common and
`
`popular type of database, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And there are some databases that
`
`ll
`
`I
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`1£
`I
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`are not relational databases, correct?
`
`A.
`
`That is correct.
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`1-800-336-6646
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`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
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`202-347-3700
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`..
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`. .
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16, 2013
`
`ll
`I!
`I
`I~
`
`I
`I
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`I'
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`I,
`I\
`I
`I;
`
`Q.
`
`Would you call a relational database a
`
`Page 17
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`type of database?
`
`A.
`
`For the purposes of this discussion, yes,
`
`I think that would be satisfactory, yes.
`
`Q.
`
`So when I ask you, were you referring to
`
`any specific type of database in this sentence, I'm
`
`referring to be it relational, nonrelational, other
`
`types of databases. Were you intending to limit the
`
`term "database" to a specific type of database?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`I would say yes, I was, in that case.
`
`And which type of database were you
`
`intending to limit this term to?
`
`A.
`
`Based on my understanding, not from the
`
`language of Claim 6 itself but rather with the
`
`specification language in the other parts of this
`
`patent, my understanding is that it was -- that the
`
`special formatting, et cetera that was being described
`
`here was related to an Oracle database which was
`
`explicitly referred to in the patent, or something
`
`similar to Oracle.
`
`I would have to look at the
`
`specific language of the patent to see the words, but
`
`my memory is that it was Oracle or Oracle-like or some
`
`1-800-336-6646
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`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`11
`!l
`ii
`li
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`I
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`11
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`language generally of that nature.
`
`Q.
`
`So when you refer to "database" here in
`
`your Declaration, you're limiting it to an Oracle
`
`Page 18
`
`database or something like that?
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Is that correct?
`
`That is part of the limitation, but --
`
`it's one of the component parts of the limitation,
`
`yes.
`
`Q.
`
`What other limitations to "database" do
`
`you believe there are in Claim 6?
`
`A.
`
`I believe that the other limitations
`
`pertain not to the type of database as we were
`
`discussing before, i.e., relational versus
`
`nonrelational, but rather to the specific data
`
`elements or fields that must be contained within the
`
`database and the relationships that must exist between
`
`groups of those fields and other groups of fields, all
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`of which were described in some detail both in the
`
`figures and the supporting text describing those
`
`figures in the specification language of the patent,
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16, 2013
`
`Page 19
`
`not in the claim language itself.
`
`Q.
`
`Now,
`
`I was going to take you next to the
`
`words "specially formatted."
`
`Is what you just
`
`referred to about the data that's in there and its
`
`relationship, is that the formatting of the database?
`
`I
`
`A.
`
`Yes, that's what I meant by "special
`
`formatting," that is, the specific identification of
`
`data elements such as a name or address or, you know,
`
`other numerous specific types of information that were
`
`identified, and also the relationship that was
`
`described that must exist between one group of data
`
`elements and other groups of data elements. All of
`
`that was comprised within my term "specially
`
`formatted."
`
`Q.
`
`Well, in Claim 6, what relationships -- or
`
`what data has to be in the database and what
`
`relationships have to be there?
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`If any.
`
`Well, in Claim 6, there are references to
`
`several of these groups of data information without
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`.
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`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
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`202-347-3700
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16, 2013
`
`Page 20
`
`specific details. For example, if you look at the
`
`language for Claim 6, it begins by saying, "A
`
`substitute fulfillment system that secures one or more
`
`substitute workers," etcetera, etcetera, and then
`
`following the colon, it says, "a database comprising
`
`worker records." So that's one example of a group of
`
`data elements, the detailed components of which are
`
`not spelled out, as I recall, here in the Claim 6
`
`itself but rather in the figures and supporting
`
`details of the specification.
`
`So it does then go on to say that the
`
`"worker records having information associated with
`
`workers for each of the organizations," but it does
`
`not spell out the detailed components of the worker
`
`records.
`
`So there are references in Claim 6 to
`
`several different groups or chunks of information that
`
`are required -- worker records, organizations,
`
`substitute records, et cetera -- but the actual
`
`details are elaborated upon in the specification and
`
`the supporting figures.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay.
`
`In Claim 6, the database has both
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`:
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`1-800-336-6646
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`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
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`202-347-3700
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`
`
`Edward Yourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`Page 21 f
`
`worker records and substitute records, correct?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes, that's correct.
`
`Do you understand Claim 6 as requiring any
`
`other records besides worker records and substitute
`
`records?
`
`17
`
`I~
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`(Pause.)
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`The answer is yes.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. What other records does that
`
`database have to have?
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`It has to have, for example,
`
`absentee information records; absent worker records;
`
`substitute workers, which may be different than
`
`substitute records.
`
`I would need to see the detailed
`
`figures and specification language to understand that.
`
`And perhaps others.
`
`I would need more time to read
`
`through this very carefully and, again, compare it to
`
`the figures and specification language to feel
`
`confident that I was giving you a complete list.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
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`~----------~-----.--.---. . ---.--~ .... ---.-.--------------------------~-----.-.--.. ---.~
`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
`202-347-3700
`1-800-336-6646
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`Q.
`
`Now, you mentioned I think an absentee
`
`worker record?
`
`Is that one thing you said was in the
`
`Page 22
`
`database?
`
`A.
`
`I believe I said absentee information, and
`
`that I'm reading from the third subparagraph of--
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Absentee information?
`
`Yeah.
`
`And
`
`but I thought you mentioned there's
`
`another record, absent worker record?
`
`Is that
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Or just absent worker?
`
`At the top of column two, the second line
`
`refers to "absent workers." And as I said, I would
`
`need to refer back to the supporting figures and
`
`specification language to see whether that reference
`
`to "absent workers" was the same or different from any
`
`of the other phrases in Claim 6.
`
`Q.
`
`Now, tell me if you agree with this.
`
`I
`
`read this absentee information on column one, line 64,
`
`I believe, as something that the one or more computers
`
`are receiving. Do you think that's wrong?
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`1-800-336-6646
`
`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
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`202-347-3700
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`
`
`Edward Yourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16, 2013
`
`Page 23
`
`i
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`(Pause.)
`
`THE WITNESS: Yes,
`
`I believe that's
`
`correct.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And where in Claim 6 is there an
`
`indication that that absentee information is stored in
`
`this database that's referred to also in Claim 6?
`
`(Pause.)
`
`A.
`
`I don't see an explicit reference to this
`
`absentee information being stored in the database in
`
`the text of Claim 6. But as I said before, to further
`
`understand it, I would need to refer to the figures
`
`and the supporting specification language.
`
`Q.
`
`Maybe I can make this a little quicker.
`
`Do you see anything in Claim 6 that requires the
`
`database to store anything other than worker records
`
`I~
`
`.. .
`
`and substitute records?
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Objection to form.
`
`(Pause.)
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`In my reading of it at this
`
`moment,
`
`I don't see any explicit references.
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`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16, 2013
`
`Page 24
`believe there are implicit requirements. For example,
`
`the language simply saying "receiving absentee
`
`information" followed by the rest of the language of
`
`Claim 6 implies to me that that absentee information
`
`needs to be stored in a database so that it can be
`
`acted upon. But I would have to again look at the
`
`figures and the specification language to feel that I
`
`fully understood it.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`And is it your understanding that that
`
`absentee information that's received must be stored in
`
`the same database that's referred to earlier in Claim
`
`6?
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I don't have any such
`
`understanding one way or the other, partly because
`
`that's not what I was trying to address in my written
`
`Declaration.
`
`So I -- sitting here right now,
`
`I don't
`
`have such an understanding.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And in Claim 6, if you look under
`
`the database, it indicates that the worker records --
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`1-800-3 3 6-6646
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`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16, 2013
`
`Page 25
`
`and to be more specific, line starting at 57 and
`
`afterwards, it says, "said worker records having
`
`information associated with workers for each of the
`
`organizations." Do you see where I'm referring to?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes,
`
`I do.
`
`Okay. Do you see anything in Claim 6 that
`
`further specifies what that information that's
`
`associated with the workers has to be?
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`(Pause.)
`
`THE WITNESS: No,
`
`I do not see it ln the
`
`language of Claim 6.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. And the language of Claim 6, you
`
`see further on, indicates that "substitute records"
`
`have "information associated with at least one
`
`substitute worker." Do you see that?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yes, I do.
`
`And do you believe there's anything either
`
`explicit or inherent in the rest of the Claim 6 that
`
`further specifies what that information associated
`
`with at least one substitute worker has to be?
`
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`~~~~~~~~~~~~--~~~~~~~~~~--~~~~~~--~~----~~~~~
`
`1-800-336-6646
`
`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
`
`202-347-3700
`
`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`May 16,2013
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
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`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`(Pause.)
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I do see a couple of
`
`Page 26
`
`references over in column two. This would be in
`
`roughly line seven where it says, "receiving a
`
`response comprising an acceptance from a substitute
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7 worker." So I would read into that that the
`
`8
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`
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`
`12
`
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`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
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`information in the database about a substitute worker
`
`would indicate whether or not he or she has indeed
`
`accepted a position that may have been offered to him
`
`or her. That is also described starting around line
`
`10, "securing, in response to receiving the acceptance
`
`from the substitute worker," and about line 13 or
`
`thereabouts, there's a reference to "the posted
`
`position for the substitute worker."
`
`So I would read from that that there needs
`
`to be information about what position the substitute
`
`worker has been assigned to.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`And just so I'm clear, your reading of the
`
`claim indicates that all that information you just
`
`referred to and the rest of Claim 6 would be in the
`
`1-800-336-6646
`
`Ace-Federal Reporters, Inc.
`
`202-347-3700
`
`
`
`Edward Y ourdon
`
`CRS Advanced Technologies, Inc. v. Patent of Frontline Technologies, Inc.
`
`May 16,2013
`
`Page 27
`
`11
`
`database that is recited in Claim 6 starting about
`
`line 56 and column one?
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Objection, form and as to
`
`scope.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I'm sorry, could you repeat
`
`the question?
`
`I got it out of my mind.
`
`MR. YOCHES:
`
`I'll rephrase the question.
`
`BY MR. YOCHES:
`
`Q.
`
`When you referred to "specially formatted"
`
`with regard to the database in column 12 -- I'm sorry,
`
`paragraph 12 --
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Of my Declaration?
`
`Of your Declaration.
`
`Yes.
`
`what special formatting has to occur ln
`
`Claim 6 as you understand it?
`
`MR. McGLYNN: Object to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`The special formatting that
`
`has to occur in general, as I had testified earlier,
`
`consists of a more detailed description of the
`
`component fields or elements of data and then the
`
`r
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