Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-9 Filed 11/12/20 Page 1 of 609
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`Exhibit 34
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`Exhibit 34
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-9 Filed 11/12/20 Page 2 of 609
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
` ______________________________________________________
`
` NETWORK-1 TECHNOLOGIES, )
` INC., )
` )
` Plaintiff, )14 Civ. 2396 (PGG-SN)
` )
` vs. )14 Civ. 9558 (PGG-SN)
` )
` GOOGLE LLC and YOUTUBE, LLC, )
` )
` Defendants. )
` ______________________________________________________
`
` VIDEO-RECORDED VIDEOCONFERENCE DEPOSITION WITH
`
` ALL PARTICIPANTS AT THEIR RESPECTIVE LOCATIONS
`
` UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF
`
` MICHAEL MITZENMACHER, Ph.D.
`
` VOLUME I
`
` (CONTAINS HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL TESTIMONY SUBJECT TO
`
` PROTECTIVE ORDER AND FOR ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY)
`
` ______________________________________________________
`
` 10:05 A.M. EDT
` JULY 22, 2020
`
` Job No. CS4168655
` REPORTED BY: CARLA R. WALLAT, CRR, RPR
` WASHINGTON CCR #2578; OREGON CSR #16-0443
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`800-567-8658
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-9 Filed 11/12/20 Page 3 of 609
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`Page 2
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
`
` FOR THE PLAINTIFF:
`
` AMY E. HAYDEN
`
` Russ August & Kabat
`
` 12424 Wilshire Boulevard, 12th Floor
`
` Los Angeles, CA 90025
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` 310.826.7474
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` ahayden@raklaw.com
`
` FOR THE DEFENDANTS:
`
` SAMUEL BRYANT DAVIDOFF
`
` GRAHAM SAFTY
`
` ANDREW TRASK
`
` MELISSA COLLINS
`
` SUNMEET DANG
`
` Williams & Connolly
`
` 725 Twelfth Street N.W.
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` Washington, DC 20005
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` 202.434.5000
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` sdavidoff@wc.com
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` gsafty@wc.com
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` atrask@wc.com
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` mcollins@wc.com
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` sdang@wc.com
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`Page 3
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` A P P E A R A N C E S (Continued)
`
` And
`
` KEVIN HARDY
`
` Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan LLP
`
` 1300 I Street NW, Suite 900
`
` Washington, DC 20005
`
` 202.538.8000
`
` kevinhardy@quinnemanuel.com
`
` ALSO PRESENT: LORI TALBOTT - Video Specialist
`
` DEMARRON BURKLEY - Google
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-9 Filed 11/12/20 Page 5 of 609
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`Page 4
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` I N D E X
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` EXAMINATION BY: PAGE(S)
`
` MR. DAVIDOFF 8
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` EXHIBITS FOR IDENTIFICATION PAGE
`
` Exhibit 1 Expert Report of Michael 12
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` Mitzenmacher, Ph.D.
`
` Regarding Google LLC and YouTube,
`
` LLC's Infringement
`
` Exhibit 2 Expert Report of Michael 13
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` Mitzenmacher, Ph.D.
`
` Regarding Validity of U.S. Patent
`
` Nos 8,010,988; 8,205,237; and
`
` 8,904,464
`
` Exhibit 3 Expert Report of Dr. Trevor 13
`
` Darrell
`
` Exhibit 4 Expert Report of Dr. Samrat 13
`
` Bhattacharjee
`
` Exhibit 5 US Patent 8,010,988 B2 14
`
` Exhibit 6 US Patent 8,205,237 B2 14
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` Exhibit 7 US Patent 8,904,464 B1 14
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` Exhibit 8 Sign-In Sheet 28
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-9 Filed 11/12/20 Page 6 of 609
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` EXHIBITS FOR IDENTIFICATION PAGE
`
` Exhibit 9 Declaration of Professor Michael 59
`
` D. Mitzenmacher in Support of
`
` Plaintiff Network-1 Technologies,
`
` Inc.'s Opening Claim Construction
`
` Brief
`
` Exhibit 10 Wednesday, March 4, 2020 email 149
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` from Safty to Hayden
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` Exhibit 11 Equation 157
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` Exhibit 12 Equation 161
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` Exhibit 13 Equation 161
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` Exhibit 14 Equation 162
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` Exhibit 14a Equation 165
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` Exhibit 15 Equation 181
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-9 Filed 11/12/20 Page 7 of 609
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` LEXINGTON, MASSACHUSETTS; JULY 22, 2020
`
` 10:05 A.M. EDT
`
` --oOo--
`
` (This deposition is being taken via
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` videoconference and all parties, the
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` witness, the videographer and the court
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` reporter are appearing remotely.)
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We're
`
` going on the record at 10:05 Eastern time on July 22nd,
`
` 2020. This deposition is being conducted using Google
`
` Meet technology and all participants are attending
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` remotely. Audio and video recording will continue to
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` take place unless all parties agree to go off the
`
` record.
`
` This is Media Unit 1 of the video-recorded
`
` deposition of Dr. Michael Mitzenmacher taken for
`
` counsel -- defendant in the matter of Network-1
`
` Technologies versus Google LLC and YouTube LLC, filed
`
` in the United States District Court, Southern District
`
` of New York, Case Number 14 Civ. 2396 and 14 Civ. 9558.
`
` My name is Lori Talbott with the firm YOM
`
` Veritext. I'm the videographer. The court reporter is
`
` Carla Wallat from the firm YOM Veritext. I'm not
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`Page 7
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` related to any party in this action, nor am I
`
` financially interested in the outcome.
`
` If there are any objections to proceeding,
`
` please state them at the time of your appearance and
`
` we'll begin with the noticing attorney, please.
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` MR. DAVIDOFF: Good morning. This is
`
` Sam Davidoff from Williams & Connolly on behalf of
`
` Google and YouTube. I'll also just state for the
`
` record the people -- other people here on behalf of
`
` Google and YouTube, from Williams & Connolly we have
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` Andrew Trask, Graham Safty, Melissa Collins and Sumeet
`
` Dang. Also on behalf of Google and YouTube we have
`
` Kevin Hardy from the law firm of Quinn Emanuel. Also
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` on the line is Damaren Burkley, a -- who is an employee
`
` of Google, in-house counsel at Google. Okay.
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` MS. HAYDEN: Okay, this is Amy Hayden
`
` from Russ August & Kabat on -- I'm here on behalf of
`
` the plaintiff Network-1 Technologies and the witness.
`
` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you.
`
` Would the court reporter please swear in the
`
` witness.
`
` THE COURT REPORTER: Okay. Counsel, if
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` you have an objection to the remote deposition, or to
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` me swearing in the witness remotely, please state so
`
` now.
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` MR. DAVIDOFF: No objection.
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` THE COURT REPORTER: Okay. Hearing no
`
` objection, and I can see the witness, I will swear in
`
` the witness.
`
` MICHAEL MITZENMACHER, Ph.D.,
`
` remotely sworn as a witness
`
` by the Certified Court Reporter,
`
` testified as follows:
`
` EXAMINATION
`
` BY MR. DAVIDOFF:
`
` Q. All right. Good morning Dr. Mitzenmacher,
`
` welcome to the brave new world. This is my first time
`
` doing one of these remotely, I assume it's yours as
`
` well. So we'll -- we'll manage through.
`
` A. First -- first deposition this way.
`
` Q. Let me just cover a couple things in terms of
`
` how everything is set up here. So you've been given
`
` access to a Google Drive folder; is that correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. And do you have that open on your
`
` computer?
`
` A. Yes. Or what I believe to be. Currently
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` appears that there are seven PDF objects in -- in the
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` external Network-1 Deposition Drive. Does that sound
`
` right?
`
` Q. Right. Yeah, that's correct. You're looking
`
` at the right folder.
`
` Okay. So let me just kind of, because this is
`
` a little different, understand a few things in terms of
`
` your setup.
`
` First of all, just in terms of physical
`
` materials, what do you have with you today?
`
` A. I have my -- you know, in terms of equipment,
`
` I have my computer and a second screen, I have my cell
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` phone, which happens to be near me, but I can remove it
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` if it should become a distraction. In terms of
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` documents, I have a pile of source code -- I forget the
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` first page number, I think was from 99 to 1233 or
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` something like that, I can check the numbers. I have
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` printed copies of -- of my reports, of the -- I believe
`
` a report of your experts and a copy of the patents.
`
` Q. Okay. Great. So you have -- in terms of
`
` source code, do you have all the source code that is
`
` referenced in your report?
`
` A. I believe so. I haven't checked specifically,
`
` but it should be.
`
` Q. And do you also have any additional source
`
` code that was cited in Dr. Bhattacharjee's report?
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` A. I -- you'd have to specify by like source code
`
` numbers or -- or so on. I mean, I have a printed copy
`
` of his report that includes some appendices. I have,
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` you know, the source code that -- that I -- I believe I
`
` referenced by source code number.
`
` Q. Okay. As far as you know, you have all the
`
` source code that was printed out available to you?
`
` A. As -- as far as I know, certainly on -- on our
`
` side.
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. Printed by.
`
` Q. And in terms of the reports you have printed
`
` out, you have your infringement report; is that right?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And also your validity report; is that
`
` correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And you have Dr. Bhattacharjee's report
`
` printed out?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And you have Trevor Darrell's report?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. And you have the three patents-in-suit?
`
` A. Yes, I believe so.
`
` Q. Okay. And those -- you refer to those as the
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` '988, the '237 and the '464 patent, you're familiar
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` with that nomenclature?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. Okay. In terms of your computer, do you have
`
` anything up on the screen other than this Google Meet
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` communication?
`
` A. Currently I have up the -- the CaseView, so --
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` that's actually what's up on my second screen at the
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` moment, and I have the video screen. There's some
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` things behind like I could close them out, but I think
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` messages and stuff is still open on my computer. Let's
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` see. And, yeah, I mean, like that's all I have open
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` that I'm --
`
` Q. Okay.
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. I guess I'd ask, do you mind closing any -- if
`
` you have messages open or any sort of real-time
`
` communication other than the live feed for the
`
` deposition, and obviously this Google Meet?
`
` A. Sure. I'll quit out messages. Hopefully that
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` should be the only thing that would -- that would
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` interrupt.
`
` Q. Okay. And -- and you're not planning to use
`
` any real-time communications other than obviously,
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` again, this Google Meet and the CaseView live feed,
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` correct?
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` A. No. Although I guess during breaks and so on
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` I may check in with my attorney by phone.
`
` Q. Sure.
`
` A. When that's permitted.
`
` Q. Yes, but just while we're on the record you
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` won't use any other form of communication?
`
` A. Okay. No. I will plan on not doing so.
`
` Q. Great.
`
` In terms of exhibits, so as exhibits are used,
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` I will -- there's seven on the Google Drive now. I'll
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` upload others if we need them. We're going to go
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` through the convention of I will say that the exhibits
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` are being marked for the deposition. In fact, that's a
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` fiction, but so to engage in that fiction, I am marking
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` for this deposition as Exhibit 1 the infringement
`
` report of Dr. Michael Mitzenmacher that is dated
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` December 23rd, 2019 -- excuse me, December 20th, 2019.
`
` And do you have a copy of that document?
`
` (Deposition Exhibit 1 was presented
`
` virtually and later marked.)
`
` A. Yeah, I'm checking -- checking the date and
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` everything, but that sounds right. Yep.
`
` Q. (BY MR. DAVIDOFF) I'm also marking as
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` Exhibit 2 the validity report of Michael Mitzenmacher
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` dated February 14th, 2020. Do you have a copy of that?
`
` (Deposition Exhibit 2 was presented
`
` virtually and later marked.)
`
` A. I do have a printed copy of that.
`
` Q. (BY MR. DAVIDOFF) I'm marking as Exhibit 3 a
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` copy of the invalidity report of Dr. Trevor Darrell,
`
` which is dated December 20th, 2019. Do you have a copy
`
` of that?
`
` (Deposition Exhibit 3 was presented
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` virtually and later marked.)
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. (BY MR. DAVIDOFF) I'm marking as Exhibit 4
`
` the noninfringement report of Dr. Samrat Bhattacharjee
`
` dated February 14th, 2020. And do you have a copy of
`
` that?
`
` (Deposition Exhibit 4 was presented
`
` virtually and later marked.)
`
` A. Yes. Well, to be clear, like I have the
`
` copies, I'm not checking the dates or so on, I'm just
`
` assuming that -- that I have the correct copy, but if
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` something comes up to suggest otherwise, I'll let you
`
` know.
`
` Q. (BY MR. DAVIDOFF) I'm marking as Exhibit 5 a
`
` copy of U.S. Patent 8,010,988. Do you have a copy of
`
` that?
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` (Deposition Exhibit 5 was presented
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` virtually and later marked.)
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. (BY MR. DAVIDOFF) And I'm marking as
`
` Exhibit 6 a copy of U.S. Patent 8,205,237. Do you have
`
` a copy of that?
`
` (Deposition Exhibit 6 was presented
`
` virtually and later marked.)
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. (BY MR. DAVIDOFF) And I'm marking as
`
` Exhibit 7 a copy of U.S. Patent 8,904,464. Do you have
`
` a copy of that?
`
` (Deposition Exhibit 7 was presented
`
` virtually and later marked.)
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. (BY MR. DAVIDOFF) Now, you mentioned that you
`
` have some source code printed out and in general, you
`
` have reviewed source code as part of forming your
`
` opinions in this case; is that correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And would you agree that in a case like this
`
` where you're accusing a software system of infringement
`
` that reviewing source code is important to forming
`
` opinions on infringement?
`
` A. I'd say yes, that's generally one of the many
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` sources I look at and -- and certainly is an important
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` one, along with other sources as well.
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` Q. And in terms of what source code is, would you
`
` agree with me that source code is the -- generally, is
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` instructions that are used to generate the
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` machine-level instructions that tell computers how to
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` operate?
`
` A. Generally, I think that sounds right. You use
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` source code or generally one refers to a source code
`
` usually as sort of the human developer or human
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` readable version of code that is then translated into,
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` you know, machine-level instructions.
`
` Q. And those machine-level instructions are what
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` direct the computer how to execute various algorithms
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` and access data, et cetera?
`
` A. Generally speaking, yes.
`
` Q. And so would you agree with me that, you know,
`
` assuming you have the correct source code for a given
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` piece of software, that source code contains the
`
` information about what algorithms are actually running
`
` when that software executes?
`
` A. I would say at, you know, a high level that is
`
` generally true, but there may, of course, always be
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` exceptional cases or -- or for various cases to
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` consider, but generally, you can look at the source
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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` code to determine the -- the sort of instructions that
`
` will occur.
`
` Q. And in this case, have you seen any indication
`
` that the source code you were provided for Google's
`
` Content ID systems is not the source code that
`
` instructs those systems how to run?
`
` MS. HAYDEN: Objection. Vague.
`
` A. Not that I can recall specifically sitting
`
` here, but if something comes to mind, I'll let you
`
` know.
`
` Q. (BY MR. DAVIDOFF) And in this case, there
`
` were two code bases for the Content ID system provided
`
` to you; is that correct?
`
` A. That is my recollection.
`
` Q. One is for a system that has been termed the
`
` LSH system; is that right?
`
` A. That sounds right.
`
` Q. And the other is a system that's been referred
`
` to as the Siberia system?
`
` A. That sounds right.
`
` Q. And as far as you can recall, you don't
`
` remember seeing anything in the LSH system's code base
`
` that would suggest that isn't the code that directs the
`
` LSH system how to operate, correct?
`
` A. Again, not that I can specifically recall,
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` although, yes, my recollection is that there have been
`
` changes in different versions in -- in time, but I
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` believe that the source code I have is reflective of
`
` the general operation.
`
` Q. And similarly for the Siberia system, do you
`
` agree that the source code you've been given access to
`
` is reflective of the operation of that system?
`
` A. As far as I can recall sitting here. If
`
` something comes to mind, I will let you know.
`
` Q. And source code is often written to include
`
` various blocks of code called functions. Would you
`
` agree with me?
`
` A. It depends on the -- the language and such,
`
` but often there would be functions or function included
`
` in the code.
`
` Q. Much of the source code for both the LSH
`
` system and the Siberia system is written in the C++
`
` programming language, correct?
`
` A. That sounds right.
`
` Q. And the C++ language uses functions, correct?
`
` A. Yeah.
`
` Q. And functions in C++ often contain one or more
`
` algorithms that direct the computer how to operate,
`
` correct?
`
` A. I mean, that -- that gets sort of vague and we
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` might want to term what you mean by algorithm and --
`
` and so on or even one or more in that case, but you may
`
` implement an algorithm through one or more functions.
`
` Q. And functions may take in inputs, correct?
`
` A. They can.
`
` Q. And they may return outputs, correct?
`
` A. They can. It depends on the function.
`
` Q. And they might also alter items in the
`
` computer's memory, correct?
`
` A. That's one of the things they might do.
`
` Q. And functions may themselves reference other
`
` functions, correct?
`
` A. Yes. That is possible.
`
` Q. They may what's termed call other functions,
`
` correct?
`
` A. I've sometimes had people refer to it that one
`
` function may call another.
`
` Q. And source code, at least in C++, also can
`
` contain what are referred to as data structures; is
`
` that right?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And data structures do not necessarily contain
`
` algorithms, would you agree?
`
` A. I'm -- I guess I -- data structures can be
`
` used in a variety of ways or contexts, so I -- I'm not
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` quite clear on your intention or meaning of that
`
` statement. So I think it would require clarification.
`
` Q. You've seen data structures in this case,
`
` correct?
`
` A. Yes.
`
` Q. And did some of those data structures simply
`
` identify the structure of data and not contain any
`
` algorithms?
`
` A. I think we'd have to point to -- you'd have to
`
` show me various data structures. Again, I'm not clear
`
` what exactly you're referring to. There are sometimes
`
` objects and things that are used in an algorithm that
`
` one might refer to as the data structure. Typically if
`
` you're just talking about a container or something,
`
` then it -- then it may not have any associated
`
` algorithms or functions. Often when people use the
`
` term "data structure," they're referring to both the
`
` object and -- and operations that can be taken on that
`
` object, and so in that case, like a data structure has
`
` associated algorithms.
`
` Q. Are you familiar also with the source code in
`
` this case that defines what are called protocol
`
` buffers?
`
` A. I recall code does that, yes.
`
` Q. And what do you recall about what those
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` protocol buffers are?
`
` A. I would have to go back and look, but I
`
` believe one of the functions of protocol buffers is to,
`
` you know, define various structures and parameters that
`
` might be used in the system.
`
` Q. Do you recall whether protocol buffers contain
`
` algorithms?
`
` MS. HAYDEN: Objection. Vague.
`
` A. I -- again, I'd have to go back and look. I
`
` don't recall one way or another if these do or do not.
`
` I think, you know, again, it would depend on what you
`
` meant by the structure containing an algorithm and so
`
` on. So we could look at the code and discuss in
`
` more -- more depth and typically, you know, there are
`
` sort of defining structures. Often these structures
`
` have associated functions or algorithms associated with
`
` them. I don't recall if those are set up in the
`
` protocol buffers or elsewhere offhand.
`
` Q. (BY MR. DAVIDOFF) Okay. And just so we avoid
`
` any confusion, what do you understand -- you used the
`
` term "algorithm" throughout your report, would you
`
` agree?
`
` A. Yes, I use the term.
`
` Q. And what do you mean by that term?
`
` A. Generally, an algorithm, you know, there are
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-9 Filed 11/12/20 Page 22 of 609
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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` various ways to describe it. One sort of typical way
`
` is -- is sort of a recipe or a series of steps that can
`
` be used, you know, given an -- an input to produce an
`
` output or produce some other sort of change in state of
`
` the system.
`
` Q. And you've seen algorithms using that
`
` definition in the source code you've reviewed for this
`
` case, correct?
`
` A. I believe so, yes.
`
` Q. Now, source code -- the source code that you
`
` reviewed in this case also contains what are called
`
` comments; is that right?
`
` A. Yeah, my recollection that there are places
`
` there are comments.
`
` Q. And when source code is converted into the
`
` machine code that instructs the computer what to do,
`
` comments are typically ignored; is that right?
`
` A. It depends on the language in the system, but
`
` typically or often comments are not translated into
`
` instructions, they're merely giving a description for
`
` users of what the code does or performs.
`
` Q. And in the C++ language that's true, correct?
`
` A. I honestly don't recall. I believe the -- I
`
` believe most compilers would strip them out, but -- but
`
` there may be compilers that also embed them in the
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` object in some way. I honestly don't recall.
`
` Q. In terms of forming your opinions in this
`
` case, when you reviewed the Google source code did you
`
` assume that comments were ignored at -- when the
`
` instructions were compiled for use by the computer?
`
` A. I -- I would say that I believe they use the
`
` comments to help gain understanding or provide
`
` understanding of what the code was doing or meant to
`
` do.
`
` Q. But to ultimately understand what the system
`
` is doing, you would have to look at what the source
`
` code itself says, you can't rely exclusively on the
`
` comments. Would you agree with that?
`
` A. I would -- I would say that I typically rely
`
` on, you know, the comments, the source code itself and,
`
` of course, various documentation, things like
`
` deposition testimony and so on.
`
` Q. If you found a conflict in what the source
`
` code was saying the system did and what a comment was
`
` indicating that code should do, what would you find to
`
` be the way to resolve that conflict? Would it be to
`
` rely on the source code or to rely on the comment?
`
` A. I guess I'm not sure I understand what you
`
` mean by the source code saying, right, because that's
`
` the -- the point that the source code doesn't typically
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` say anything. It's a sort of set of instructions that
`
` you have to understand. So, you know, if there was
`
` some sort of discrepancy among -- in any case among my
`
` various sources of information, I attempt to understand
`
` or resolve or see where the -- that discrepancy has
`
` arisen or -- or how it to comes into play.
`
` Q. Assuming you have the correct source code for
`
` a system, though, would you agree that that is
`
` ultimately what will instruct the system how to
`
` operate?
`
` A. I would say that certainly that's like a main
`
` source that I'd go to. Again, the -- there's source
`
` code, it gets translated or put into machine
`
` instructions, there may be issues or -- or changes in
`
` the understanding of how that process is done. You
`
` know, there are several steps. So certainly the -- the
`
` source code is meant to provide the instructions and I
`
` would look at that, but if there were discrepancies or
`
` lack of clarity in the understanding, I would seek to
`
` resolve that or -- or gain more information to
`
` understand where that discrepancy might arise.
`
` Q. In the code you reviewed in this case, the
`
` comments in the code did not instruct the computer
`
` system how to operate, did they?
`
` A. I don't believe so. But I believe they
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` provide, you know, the understanding or -- or -- or,
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` you know, the comments are put in by the engineers or
`
` put in by the people writing it to describe or explain
`
` the understanding of how the code is to function.
`
` Q. But the comments do not themselves instruct
`
` the system how to operate, correct?
`
` A. Generally, no, and I would have to check if
`
` there's any reason why that would not be the case here,
`
` but I -- I assume that the -- the comments are not
`
` providing the instructions, but they describe how the
`
` code works and how the code functions.
`
` Q. In your review of the Google source code, can
`
` you recall ever seeing an example of a comment that got
`
` converted into instructions that told the computer how
`
` to operate?
`
` A. I am -- believe I'm working under the
`
` assumption that the comments are comments that are
`
` explanations. Whether there's anything in Google's
`
` compiler that would otherwise translate, you know, I'm
`
` not making the assumption that that's the case.
`
` Q. You don't have any reason to think that's the
`
` case either, correct?
`
` A. Not as I sit here.
`
` Q. And similarly, deposition testimony from
`
` witnesses does not instruct the computer how to
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` operate, correct?
`
` A. I'd say in deposition testimony is often
`
` useful in understanding or, you know, getting an
`
` understanding of how code is operated or how it's meant
`
` to function, but, you know, clearly a person speaking
`
` does not provide direct instruction.
`
` Q. And it's possible for people to misremember
`
` how a computer system operates, correct?
`
` A. There is that --
`
` MS. HAYDEN: Objection. Speculation.
`
` A. There is that potential, and again, that's
`
` why, you know, typically when goin
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