Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-8 Filed 11/12/20 Page 1 of 290
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`Exhibit 33
`(Partially Redacted)
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`Exhibit 33
`(Partially Redacted)
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` UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK
`________________________________________________________
`
`NETWORK-1 TECHNOLOGIES, INC.,)
` )
` Plaintiff, )
` ) No. 14 Civ. 2396 (PGG-SN)
`vs. )
` ) No. 14 Civ. 9558 (PGG-SN)
`GOOGLE LLC and YOUTUBE, LLC, )
` )
` Defendants. )
`________________________________________________________
`
` VIDEO-RECORDED GOOGLE MEET DEPOSITION
`
` UPON ORAL EXAMINATION OF
`
` SAMRAT "BOBBY" BHATTACHARJEE
`
`________________________________________________________
`
` CONFIDENTIAL OUTSIDE COUNSEL ONLY,
` PROSECUTION/ACQUISITION BAR MATERIALS;
` HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL, SOURCE CODE
`
` 11:14 AM EST
` TUESDAY, JULY 28, 2020
` (ALL PARTICIPANTS AT THEIR RESPECTIVE LOCATIONS)
`
`Job No. CS4169220
`Reported by: Tami Lynn Vondran, CRR, RPR, CCR No. 2157
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`800-567-8658
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`973-410-4098
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-8 Filed 11/12/20 Page 3 of 290
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL
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` A P P E A R A N C E S
` (ALL PARTIES APPEARING REMOTELY)
`
`FOR NETWORK-1:
` MARC FENSTER
` BRIAN LEDAHL
` AMY HAYDEN
` Russ August & Kabat Law
` 12424 Wilshire Boulevard, 12th Floor
` Los Angeles, CA 90025
` (310) 826-7474
` mfenster@raklaw.com
` bledahl@raklaw.com
` ahayden@raklaw.com
`
`FOR GOOGLE:
` ANDREW TRASK
` GRAHAM SAFTY
` Williams & Connolly
` 725 12th Street Northwest
` Washington, DC 20005
` (202) 434-5116
` atrask@wc.com
` gsafty@wc.com
`
` and
`
` KEVIN HARDY
` Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan, LLP
` 1300 I Street Northwest, Suite 900
` Washington, DC 20005
` (202) 538-8000
` kevinhardy@quinnemanuel.com
`
`ALSO PRESENT:
` DEMARRON BERKLEY, Google In-house Counsel
` LORI TALBOTT, Videographer
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`Page 3
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` I N D E X
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`EXAMINATION BY: PAGE:LINE
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` Mr. Fenster .................................6:18
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` (Afternoon Session) Mr. Fenster ...........131:10
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` Mr. Trask .................................222:16
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` Mr. Fenster ...............................229:14
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`EXHIBITS FOR IDENTIFICATION MARKED
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`Exhibit 1 Expert Report of Dr. Samrat .........11: 5
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` Bhattacharjee (232 pages)
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`Exhibit 2 YouTube Content ID ..................43:17
`
` (GOOG-NETWORK-00767739-821)
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`Exhibit 3 Match System Indexing ..............146:14
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` (GOOG-NETWORK-00699813-814)
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`Exhibit 4 Content ID Mathematics .............180:23
`
` (GOOG-NETWORK-00018600-620)
`
`Exhibit 5 Siberia-only Matching Progress .....198:21
`
` Update and Roadmap
`
` (GOOG-NETWORK-00781511-556)
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-8 Filed 11/12/20 Page 5 of 290
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` WASHINGTON, DC; TUESDAY, JULY 28, 2020
`
` 11:14 AM EST
`
` --000--
`
` (This deposition is being taken via
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` videoconference and all parties, the
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` witness, the videographer and the court
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` reporter are appearing remotely.)
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Good morning. We are going
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`on the record at 11:14 a.m. Eastern time on July 28th,
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`2020.
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` This deposition is being conducted using
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`Google Meet technology and all participants are
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`attending remotely. Audio and video recording will
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`continue to take place unless all parties agree to go
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`off the record.
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` This is Media Unit 1 in the video-recorded
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`deposition of Bobby Bhattacharjee in the matter of
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`Network-1 Technologies versus Google LLC and YouTube,
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`LLC, filed in the United States District Court; Southern
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`District of New York, Case No. 14 Civ. 2396 and
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`14 Civ. 9558.
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` My name is Lori Talbott from the firm YOM
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`Veritext. I'm the videographer. The court reporter is
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`Tami Vondran from the firm YOM Veritext. I'm not
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`related to any party in this action, nor am I
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`financially interested in the outcome.
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` If there are any objections to proceeding,
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`please state them at the time of your appearance. And
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`we'll begin with the noticing attorney, please.
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` MR. FENSTER: Good morning. This is
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`Marc Fenster with Russ August & Kabat on behalf of the
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`plaintiff Network-1 Technologies.
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` MR. TRASK: Hi, this is Andrew Trask from the
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`law firm of Williams & Connolly on behalf of defendants.
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`With me today also from Williams & Connolly is my
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`colleague Graham Safty, as well as Kevin Hardy from the
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`law firm of Quinn Emanuel and Demarron Berkley, in-house
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`counsel.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: And I believe we also have
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`Brian and Amy with us.
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` MR. FENSTER: Yes, with -- this is
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`Marc Fenster. With me today listening in are
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`Brian Ledahl and Amy Hayden, both of Russ
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`August & Kabat.
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` THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. Thank you. Would
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`the court reporter please swear in the witness.
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` THE COURT REPORTER: Good morning. At this
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`time I will ask counsel to agree on the record that
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`there is no objection to me administering an oath to the
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`witness via videoconference. And please start with the
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`noticing attorney.
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` MR. FENSTER: No objection.
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` MR. TRASK: No objection from defendants
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`either.
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` THE COURT REPORTER: I can see the witness on
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`my screen, and so I will go ahead and swear you in.
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` SAMRAT "BOBBY" BHATTACHARJEE,
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` sworn as a witness by the Certified Court Reporter,
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` testified as follows:
`
` THE COURT REPORTER: Thank you.
`
` Please proceed.
`
` EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. FENSTER:
`
` Q. Good morning, Dr. Bhattacharjee.
`
` A. Good morning.
`
` Q. Can you state and spell your name for the
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`record, please.
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` A. First name, Samrat, S-a-m-r-a-t; last name,
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`Bhattacharjee, B-h-a-t-t-a-c-h-a-r-j-e-e.
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` Q. Okay. And where do you -- where you live,
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`Dr. Bhattacharjee?
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` A. I live in Silver Spring, Maryland.
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` Q. And have you had your deposition taken before?
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` A. Yes, I have.
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` Q. On how many occasions?
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` A. More than 10, maybe 15, perhaps even 20, but I
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`don't think it's 20.
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` Q. Okay. And have you had a -- have you
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`participated in a video deposition like we're doing
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`today?
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` A. I have.
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` Q. Okay. On how many occasions?
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` A. Just once.
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` Q. Is there anything that would prevent you from
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`giving true -- true, accurate and complete testimony
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`today?
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` A. Nothing.
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` Q. And where are you physically today,
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`Dr. Bhattacharjee?
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` A. I'm at the law offices of Williams & Connolly
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`in Washington, DC.
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` Q. And is anyone else with you present in the
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`room?
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` A. No.
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` Q. And when were you retained -- by whom were you
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`retained and when? And --
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` A. Sorry. Please repeat the question.
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` Q. Sure. When were -- who -- let's break it up.
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` By whom were you retained in this case?
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` A. By Williams & Connolly.
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` Q. Okay. And do you recall approximately when
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`you were retained?
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` A. I think August of last year.
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` Q. August 2019?
`
` A. That's correct.
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` Q. Okay. And who reached out to you initially?
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` A. I believe it was Mr. Trask.
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` Q. And what were you asked to do in this case?
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` A. I was asked to analyze the asserted patents
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`and the -- and the asserted claims and then form an
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`opinion about infringement or noninfringement of the
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`accused --
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` THE COURT REPORTER: I didn't hear the end of
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`your answer.
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` A. I said to form an opinion about infringement
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`or noninfringement of the accused products, so by the
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`accused products.
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` Q. (BY MR. FENSTER) And have you ever been
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`retained -- have you ever worked with or been retained
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`by Williams & Connolly before?
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` A. Yes.
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` Q. On how many occasions?
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` A. I have worked on one other litigation for
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`Williams & Connolly.
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` Q. And what was that?
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` A. When was that? Is that what you asked?
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` Q. What was that case?
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` A. It is -- it is -- I can't remember the name of
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`the plaintiff off the top of my head, but it was against
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`eBay. And it should be the very first thing in my
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`litigation CV that you have.
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` Q. Okay. And you were working on behalf of eBay;
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`is that correct?
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` A. No, the plaintiff.
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` Q. Okay. And have you had any other engagements
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`with Williams & Connolly other than that one?
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` A. I analyzed some source code once, and I think
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`this was, again, about ten years ago.
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` Q. Have you been doing any other work on behalf
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`of Google or YouTube?
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` A. I have been retained on behalf of Google in
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`one other matter.
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` Q. And what matter was that?
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` A. I believe it's Uniloc versus Google.
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` Q. Uniloc?
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` A. Correct.
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` Q. Is that matter still ongoing or is it
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`completed?
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` A. It is still ongoing, to the best of my
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`knowledge.
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` Q. And with which -- are you working with a law
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`firm in connection with that case as well?
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` A. Yes, I am.
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` Q. And what firm is that?
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` A. I believe right now it's Jones Day.
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` THE COURT REPORTER: Jones Day?
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` THE WITNESS: That's correct.
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` Q. (BY MR. FENSTER) In your -- and what -- what
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`documents do you have with you in the room other --
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`physical documents, other than the Google Drive?
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` A. I have three folders with source code, and I
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`have a copy of my report and the exhibits.
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` Q. Okay. Anything else?
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` A. No.
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` Q. Okay. Do you have any chat applications or
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`any kind of messaging or communication applications open
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`other than the Google Meet that we're meeting on right
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`now?
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` A. I have the live screen, the live text from the
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`court reporter. I'm not sure that counts as a chat, but
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`that's all.
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` Q. And, Dr. Bhattacharjee, I would like to ask
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`the court reporter to mark as Exhibit 1 the expert
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`report of Dr. Samrat Bhattacharjee in the Google Drive.
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` (Exhibit No. 1 marked for identification.)
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` MR. FENSTER: Let me know when you're ready,
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`Tami.
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` THE COURT REPORTER: Are you wanting me to
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`physic- -- I have the Exhibit 1 and I can digitally mark
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`it when we're done.
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` MR. FENSTER: Okay. That's fine.
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` THE COURT REPORTER: Okay. I've marked it in
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`the transcript.
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` MR. FENSTER: Great. Thank you.
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` Q. (BY MR. FENSTER) So, Dr. Bhattacharjee, do
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`you recognize Exhibit 1?
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` A. Just for clarification, may I use the paper
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`copy or should I open it online?
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` Q. You certainly may use your paper copy. And --
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` A. Yes, I recognize Exhibit 1.
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` Q. And is your paper copy a clean copy? Does it
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`have any annotations or markings in it?
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` A. Not to my knowledge. This is the first time
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`I've opened it.
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` Q. Okay. And so it's a document entitled "Expert
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`Report of Dr. Samrat Bhattacharjee," and the body of the
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`document is 226 pages; is that correct?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. Okay. And it's signed February 14, 2020, and
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`is that your signature?
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` A. It is.
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` Q. Okay. Does this report contain a complete
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`statement of your opinions in this case regarding the
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`subject matter therein?
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` A. It contains all of the opinions I had as of
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`that date. Now, if there are other opinions that are
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`solicited, I would like to be able to present them as
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`well.
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` Q. Okay. So it was complete as of February 14,
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`2020; correct?
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` A. That's correct.
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` Q. And are there any opinions since that -- that
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`you know of now that are not included in this report?
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` A. Nothing specific.
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` Q. How was Exhibit 1 prepared?
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` A. Oh --
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` Q. Can you describe the drafting process?
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` A. Oh, the drafting process as opposed to --
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` Okay. So the -- it was -- I mean, I wrote the
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`report; right. And there are parts of the report,
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`especially the legal sections, where the first drafts
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`came from the attorneys because I'm simply not -- I'm
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`not a lawyer; I couldn't write that. And I sent the
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`text to the Williams & Connolly attorneys and they put
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`together in the -- put it all together in the format
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`that they wish to supply it in.
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` Q. So you did the initial drafting of the
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`substantive text other than the legal stuff?
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` A. I wouldn't say I did the initial drafting. I
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`mean, I did the full-on writing, but -- so -- and then I
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`tend to work on it -- needed to to -- or when I was
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`done, I sent my drafts to -- or the copy to the
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`Williams & Connolly attorneys.
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` Just as an aside, somebody opened this door,
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`but I believe they left. But, okay.
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` Q. Okay. If at any time you need a break,
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`Dr. Bhattacharjee, just let us know and we'll try to
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`accommodate. Okay?
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` A. Okay.
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` Q. I want to follow up a little bit on your last
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`answer.
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` You distinguished between -- you said you
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`didn't necessarily do the first draft but you did the
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`full writing. What distinction were you drawing there?
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` A. Oh, I'm not sure that -- I was saying that
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`it's not that I wrote the first draft and somebody else
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`wrote the final draft or something like that; right.
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`What's in here are entirely my opinions. And
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`essentially in all the substantive text, I have written
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`and/or I -- it is my opinion at the end of the day.
`
` Q. Got it.
`
` And did you do anything to prepare for your
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`deposition today, Dr. Bhattacharjee?
`
` A. Yes.
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` Q. And can you tell me what you did?
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` A. I read my report again. I, of course, read
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`the patents. I read Dr. Mitzenmacher's report. I
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`looked at a few documents, and then I had a series of
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`video calls with attorneys from Williams & Connolly and
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`from Quinn Emanuel.
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` Q. Do you recall what documents you looked at
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`other than the report -- your report, Dr. Mitzenmacher's
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`report and the patents?
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` A. Usually the exhibits or things that are cited
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`in the -- in the reports, and also I looked at some
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`source code but in paper or PDF form.
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` Q. And can you tell me about the video calls that
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`you had to prepare for your deposition. How many did
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`you have and with whom?
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` A. As I said, they were with attorneys from
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`Williams & Connolly and one from Quinn Emanuel. And I
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`had a series of calls, maybe six calls.
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` Q. Six calls?
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` A. Maybe. May have been more, but it -- it -- we
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`had a few calls over the last few weeks.
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` Q. Approximately how many hours have you spent
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`talking to the lawyers from Williams & Connolly and
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`Quinn Emanuel in preparation for your deposition today?
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` A. 20. And that's approximate. I -- you know,
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`that would be a reasonable estimate.
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` Q. Okay. Can you tell me a little bit about your
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`experience with search algorithms for video and audio
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`content?
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` A. Sure. So the algorithms that the asserted
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`patents are describing are relatively standard,
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`well-known algorithms. And those types of algorithms I
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`have -- well, I learned them when I'm in undergrad and
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`grad school, of course, and I've also worked extensively
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`on video and audio and also on search algorithms or
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`specific types of search algorithms.
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` Q. Have you designed any nonexhaustive neighbor
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`searches for video or audio?
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` A. Let's be a bit, let's say, careful here
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`because "nonexhaustive" and, you know, "neighbor search"
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`are terms that have been construed or are in dispute in
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`this matter.
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` So just very broadly speaking, not to do with
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`the litigation, I have looked at search algorithms
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`which, depending upon how one construes this term, could
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`be considered to be nonexhaustive, for instance.
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` Q. You say that you've looked at. Have you
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`designed any such algorithms?
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` A. Let's see. I have certainly designed systems
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`that work with these types of algorithms. And I have
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`worked on, for instance, statistical methods for ranking
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`data. And currently that may be close -- the closest to
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`designing an algorithm that -- that you're asking me
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`about. And, you know, we design such algorithms all the
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`time when I'm doing my work often in terms of finding
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`specific matches or specific items that might match or
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`satisfy criteria.
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` So, I don't know, I mean, we may have to be a
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`bit more precise or maybe go through some of my papers
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`and I can tell you what these things do and you may
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`decide whether they fit the constraints you have in
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`mind.
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` Q. Okay. Have you designed any algorithms to
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`compare a probe video with a reference set of videos to
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`find a match?
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` THE COURT REPORTER: Andrew, did you say
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`something?
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` MR. TRASK: Yes. I said objection. Vague.
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` A. So, you know, what a match is, is somewhat --
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`again, perhaps there is no -- or there is some debate as
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`to what we can constitute a match. And "probe" and
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`"reference" are, again, terms that have certain meaning,
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`at least within the accused system and so on.
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` So have I designed algorithms that compare
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`videos? I don't know that there is anything
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`particularly specific about comparing videos per se.
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` As I said, I've worked on systems and
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`algorithms for analyzing and ranking searches in large
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`systems. And, again, we can go through a few papers and
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`perhaps I can tell you what I did in some of those, and
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`they may all come close to satisfying what you might
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`have in mind.
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` Q. (BY MR. FENSTER) Have you designed any
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`algorithms to compare a probe or query audio sample with
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`a set of reference audio samples?
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` MR. TRASK: Same objection.
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` A. So I'm just going to repeat the question.
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` Okay. So you said "compare," not "match" this
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`time. That's fine.
`
` The -- I don't know that one needs a specific
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`algorithm or something particularly deep to compare an
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`audio sample with, you know, some other audio sample.
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`That's just a byte comparison of that point. So have I
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`done this? Yeah. I -- you know, I don't know that this
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`is particularly research worthy.
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` Q. (BY MR. FENSTER) You have designed algorithms
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`to compare audio samples?
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` A. So what I'm telling you is comparing an audio
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`sample -- so an audio sample, depending on the type of
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`audio you have, if it's a CD, it's just a 16-bit value
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`which is sampled 44,100 times a second. And so any time
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`you compare two 16-bit values, you have designed an
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`algorithm to compare audio samples. So there is no
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`particular depth of intellect required to do that.
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` Q. So if I understand you, you are saying that
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`you've designed algorithms that could be used for
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`comparing audio samples but not anything specific to
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`audio samples; is that fair?
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` A. That's fair. And what I'm saying is, you
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`know, if all you want to do is compare audio samples,
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`you don't really -- I wouldn't call it designing an
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`algorithm or that you would need something particularly
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`knowledgeable for that.
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` Q. Okay. Have you designed any systems that were
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`intended to compare video or audio samples?
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` MR. TRASK: Objection. Vague.
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-8 Filed 11/12/20 Page 20 of 290
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` A. Once again, comparing -- comparing video and
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`audio samples, there's nothing magical about video data
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`or audio data. I've worked extensively on the details
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`of video encoding, more than audio really.
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` But if I -- if I had to compare a frame with
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`another frame or an audio sample with another audio
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`sample, I don't think one needs to design something
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`particularly deep for that.
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` Q. (BY MR. FENSTER) That wasn't my question. My
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`question was whether you have designed systems that were
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`intended to -- or designed to identify or compare
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`whether a probe video matches a set of reference videos?
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` MR. TRASK: Object to form.
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` A. Again, you know, we're -- as I said, what --
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`what a match is is somewhat contentious here. And, you
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`know, probe or a query video and a set of references
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`of -- I don't know that -- okay, let's -- let me try to
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`clarify a little bit.
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` I don't know that, depending upon how match is
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`construed, this is a particularly difficult thing to do.
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` Q. (BY MR. FENSTER) That's not my question. And
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`I'd appreciate it if you would stay with my question.
`
` My question is about whether you have designed
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`systems that were designed to compare a probe video with
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`a set of reference videos to find a correlation, match.
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-SN Document 241-8 Filed 11/12/20 Page 21 of 290
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`If you're uncomfortable with the word "match," you can
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`find -- use another word.
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` MR. TRASK: Objection.
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` A. Again, you use the term "correlation," which
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`is somewhat contentious also. But depending if you just
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`wanted to compare whether two videos are identical or
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`something, I don't think we need something
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`particularly -- particularly sophisticated to do that.
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` I've developed plenty of systems for handling
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`video transfer and so on. So I don't -- again, I don't
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`know exactly what to say here.
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` Q. (BY MR. FENSTER) My -- Dr. Bhattacharjee, I'm
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`trying to find out if you have -- I'm trying to probe
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`your experience. And I would like to know if you have
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`designed a system that is designed to compare a probe
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`video with a set of reference videos to determine if
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`there is similarity between those two, or between the
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`probe and anything in the reference set.
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` A. I have worked in the space of videos and media
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`transfer for a long time, and I don't know that -- the
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`way you phrased the problem is very specific, and, you
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`know, I've developed large video systems. Could they
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`have done such a comparison for duplication, for
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`instance? I don't know that. I didn't do that.
`
` Q. Have you done specific work on developing or
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`designing efficient algorithms for searching in
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`high-dimensional space?
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` A. Interestingly, I have worked relatively
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`recently on compressing these large --
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` THE COURT REPORTER: I'm sorry. Excuse me,
`
`can you repeat that? "I've worked relatively recently"?
`
` A. I've worked on -- recently on compressing
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`these large neural networks using tensors, t-e-n-s-o-r.
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` Okay. And -- and the whole idea there is that
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`if we can make the network smaller it will be more
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`efficient and will run faster with less memory and so
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`on.
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` So -- and the types of problems these networks
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`are doing are often classifying items in
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`high-dimensional spaces. So, yeah, in the -- in the
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`sort of avant-garde neural network space, I do have some
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`work in this area.
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` Q. (BY MR. FENSTER) Okay. And when you say
`
`"relatively recently," what are we talking about in
`
`terms of time frame?
`
` A. I mean, of course I know of the algorithms
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`from a long time, you know, the -- at least the
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`classical algorithms, the ones that are referred to in
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`the -- in the patents.
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` Now, the particular work with the neural
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`networks I'm talking about I've done over the last
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`five years.
`
` Q. Okay. So in the last five years you've worked
`
`on compressing large neural networks using tensors;
`
`correct?
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` A. Using tensor methods may be a better way to
`
`say it.
`
` Q. Okay. Have you -- prior to the last
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`five years, have you done any work designing efficient
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`algorithms for searching high-dimensional space?
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` A. I have used those methods, certainly. And,
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`you know, when we use something in a large system, we
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`often try to implement it efficiently and so on. So I
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`think that would be a fair representation of what I have
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`done.
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` Q. Okay. Can you give me an example of that?
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` A. As I said, I've done some work on -- in a
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`distributive manner ranking search results which you can
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`think of as trying to -- depending upon the framework,
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`we're trying to, you know, in a distributive manner, do
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`large-scale ranking. So that would be one example, for
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`instance.
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` Q. Okay. So you've used algorithms to search in
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`high-dimensional space, but you have not designed
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`algorithms for efficiently searching high-dimensional
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`space; is that fair?
`
` A. Let me clarify a little bit. You know, the
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`algorithms themselves are often -- they assume extremely
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`pure settings. So one can take the algorithm, but in
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`order to actually use it and apply it to a realistic
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`data set on a large scale, we have to often redesign
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`parts of it and certainly implement them taking the
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`hardware constraints into account and so on.
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` So, once again, you know, where -- where does
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`the design of the algorithm stop? Once we have to use
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`an algorithm to solve a specific problem that is, let's
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`say, tailored to a specific situation, we often have to
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`redesign parts of the algorithm.
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` Q. What work have you done in your past that you
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`think is sort of the best example or the closest to the
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`type of search problems addressed in the patent?
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` A. So let me -- you know, without being
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`particularly obstinate, let me preface this by saying
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`that it is not fair to me that I agree with your
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`characterization of the -- what the patents are doing.
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`I don't think the patents are addressing search
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`problems.
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` In fact, if we take a look at the patents, you
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`know -- if we take a look at what the patents say,
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`they're directed to -- I don't think that they're
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`necessarily directed to search.
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` If we take a look at what the bulk or, you
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`know, a lot of the text in the patents are, it's not
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`just about search. In fact, the patents simply recite
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`nonsearch algorithms. So -- and they have lots of other
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`components.
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` And as I said, when it comes to specifically
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`the search, I have used existing algorithms. I have
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`learned them. I use them when I need to, just like the
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`patents do.
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` Q. Can you give me sort of the -- an example that
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`you think is closest and, you know, gives you the
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`closest experience to the type of problems being
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`addressed by the patents-in-suit?
`
` A. So would you mind if I take a look at the
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`patent for a second?
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` Q. No, sure.
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` A. Okay. Let's see. So I'm looking at the '988
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`patent here, and I'm -- so -- and I'm looking at, for
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`instance, the background of the invention in column 1,
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`line -- I guess it would be 22, and it says: The
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`present invention concerns linking traditional media to
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`new interactive media, such as provided over the
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`Internet, for example. In particular, the present
`
`invention concerns
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