Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-MHD Document 158-6 Filed 07/19/19 Page 1 of 28
`Case 1:14-cv-02396—PGG-MHD Document 158-6 Filed 07/19/19 Page 1 of 28
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`EXHIBIT 5
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`EXHIBIT 5
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-MHD Document 158-6 Filed 07/19/19 Page 2 of 28
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`Page 1
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` UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
` BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
`
` GOOGLE INC., )
` )
` Petitioner, )
` )
` vs. ) Patent No.
` ) 8,904,464
` NETWORK-1 TECHNOLOGIES, INC., )
` )
` Patent Owner. )
`
` DEPOSITION OF PIERRE MOULIN, Ph.D.
` Champaign, Illinois
` Monday, December 7, 2015
`
`Reported by:
`RACHEL F. GARD, CSR, RPR, CLR, CRR
`JOB NO. 100828
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-MHD Document 158-6 Filed 07/19/19 Page 3 of 28
`Page 2
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` December 7, 2015
` 9:14 a.m.
`
` Deposition of PIERRE MOULIN, Ph.D., at the
`I Hotel and Conference Center, 1900 South First
`Street, Champaign, Illinois, pursuant to notice
`before Rachel F. Gard, Illinois Certified
`Shorthand Reporter, Registered Professional
`Reporter, Certified LiveNote Reporter,
`Certified Realtime Reporter.
`
`A P P E A R A N C E S:
` FINNEGAN HENDERSON FARABOW GARRETT &
` DUNNER
` Attorneys for Petitioner
` 901 New York Avenue, N.W.
` Washington, D.C. 20001
` BY: JOSHUA GOLDBERG, ESQ.
` CHRISTOPHER JOHNS, ESQ.
`
` DOVEL & LUNER
` Attorneys for Patent Owner
` 201 Santa Monica Boulevard
` Santa Monica, California 90401
` BY: GREGORY SCOTT DOVEL, ESQ.
` (Via videoconference)
`
`ALSO PRESENT: RICH SONNENTAG, Google
`
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`1
` (Witness sworn.)
`2 WHEREUPON:
`3
` PIERRE MOULIN, Ph.D.,
`4
`called as a witness herein, having been first
`5
`duly sworn, was examined and testified as
`6
`follows:
`7
` CROSS-EXAMINATION
`8
`BY MR. DOVEL:
`9
` Q. Dr. Moulin, good to see you again.
`10
` A. Likewise.
`11
` (Exhibit Number 1001 marked for
`12
` identification.)
`13
` Q. I'm going to place a number of
`14
`exhibits in front of you. I'm going to have
`15 marked as Exhibit 1001, Patent Number '464.
`16
`I'll have that placed in front of you.
`17
` A. Thank you.
`18
` (Exhibit Number 1003 marked for
`19
` identification.)
`20
` Q. I'm going to mark as Exhibit 1003, a
`21
`declaration you filed in connection with this
`22
`proceeding. That will be Exhibit 1003 in this
`23
`deposition as well.
`24
` (Exhibit Number 1006 marked for
`25
` identification.)
`
`1
` I N D E X
`2 WITNESS PAGE
`3
`PIERRE MOULIN, Ph.D.
`4
` Cross-Examination by Mr. Dovel 5
`5
` Redirect Examination by Mr. Goldberg 102
`
` E X H I B I T S
`EXHIBIT PAGE
` Exhibit 1001 Patent Number '464 5
`
` Exhibit 1003 Declaration 5
`
` Exhibit 1006 Ferris reference 5
`
` Exhibit 1007 Lambert reference 85
`
` Exhibit 1008 Gionis reference 98
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`2 (Pages 2 to 5)
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-MHD Document 158-6 Filed 07/19/19 Page 4 of 28
`Page 6
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`1
` Q. And I'll have marked as
`2
`Exhibit 1006, a copy of the Ferris reference.
`3
` Dr. Moulin, I'd like to have you
`4
`turn in your declaration, which is
`5
`Exhibit 1003, to Page 20 -- Actually, let's
`6
`start with Page 16, Paragraph 37. Dr. Moulin,
`7
`in this paragraph, you describe a portion of
`8 what's happening in the '464 patent; is that
`9
`correct?
`10
` A. Yes.
`11
` Q. And you refer to a unique identifier
`12
`is entered into a work identification, WID,
`13
`database.
`14
` Do you see that?
`15
` A. Yes.
`16
` Q. And above that you quote a portion
`17
`of the '464 patent. It says: The signals may
`18
`be processed to extract a representative
`19
`feature vector, and this feature vector is
`20
`assigned a unique identifier.
`21
` Do you see that?
`22
` A. Yes.
`23
` Q. Okay. I'd like you to turn to the
`24
`'464 patent, which is Exhibit 1001.
`25
` A. Yes.
`
`Page 8
`
`1
` Q. I'd like you to turn to column 6.
`2
`In column 6, starting at Line 10, there's a
`3
`sentence that reads: Each item or record 112
`4 may associate a feature vector of a work 114
`5 with a preferably unique work identifier 116.
`6
` Do you see that?
`7
` A. Yes.
`8
` Q. What is your understanding of what
`9
`is meant by work identifier 116?
`10
` A. So it is something that identifies
`11
`the work.
`12
` Q. I'd like you to look at Figure 9 in
`13
`the patent.
`14
` A. Yes.
`15
` Q. Do you see where at the top of
`16
`Figure 9, it has a table, one of the rows of
`17 which is work identifier?
`18
` A. Yes.
`19
` Q. And then there's some examples of
`20 work identifiers. Do you see those?
`21
` A. Yes.
`22
` Q. In the '464 patent, is the work
`23
`identifier a character or group of characters
`24
`that are used to identify or name an item?
`25
` A. It does not have to.
`
`Page 9
`
`1
` Q. Doesn't have to what?
`2
` A. It does not have to be characters or
`3
`numbers as in Figure 9.
`4
` Q. What can it be?
`5
` A. Anything that identifies a work.
`6
` Q. When we talk about work, we're
`7
`talking about in the case of the '464 patent,
`8
`electronic media works; is that right?
`9
` A. Yes.
`10
` Q. What is an electronic media work?
`11
` A. It is a media work that is
`12
`represented electronically.
`13
` Q. What does it mean to be represented
`14
`electronically?
`15
` A. Which can be represented on a
`16
`computer, as an example.
`17
` Q. Is an electronic media work a media
`18 work that must be processed by an electronic
`19
`device in order to be perceived by the audience
`20
`or by a user?
`21
` A. An electronic media work is just a
`22 work which can be represented electronically,
`23
`again as an example, by a computer. The user
`24
`filters is not matter. It's just a work that
`25
`can be represented electronically.
`
`1
` Q. When the '464 patent refers to an
`2
`electronic media work identifier, does the word
`3
`identifier have some special meaning in the
`4
`patent? Or is it used with its ordinary
`5 meaning in the field?
`6
` A. My understanding is it's the
`7
`ordinary meaning in the field.
`8
` Q. In your declaration, did you
`9
`identify what the ordinary meaning in the field
`10 was for identifier?
`11
` A. I do not believe I defined it
`12
`explicitly, no.
`13
` Q. Are you familiar with an
`14
`organization called the IEEE?
`15
` A. Yes.
`16
` Q. Would you accept the IEEE Standard
`17 Dictionary of Electrical and Electronic Terms
`18
`as an authoritative source of the ordinary
`19 meaning of identifier in the field?
`20
` A. Not necessarily. There are multiple
`21
`possible definitions.
`22
` Q. What are the multiple possible
`23
`definitions of identifier?
`24
` A. One could be a definition taken from
`25
`a dictionary.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
`
`3 (Pages 6 to 9)
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`

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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-MHD Document 158-6 Filed 07/19/19 Page 5 of 28
`Page 10
`Page 11
`1
` Q. Well, my question is this: Does the
`2
`IEEE Standard Dictionary of Electrical and
`3
`Electronic Terms capture the ordinary meaning
`4
`of terms in the field?
`5
` A. You would have to give me the
`6
`definition. I do not know it.
`7
` Q. Do you have any reason to think
`8
`the -- Well, withdrawn.
`9
` In general is it your understanding
`10
`that the IEEE Standard Dictionary of Electrical
`11
`and Electronic Terms captures the ordinary
`12 meaning of terms in the field?
`13
` A. Not necessarily.
`14
` Q. In what instance would the --
`15 Withdrawn.
`16
` Can you give me an example of when
`17
`the IEEE Standard Dictionary of Electrical and
`18
`Electronic Terms would not set forth the
`19
`ordinary meaning of a term?
`20
` A. Well, IEEE is the international
`21
`organization of electrical and electronics
`22
`engineers. So it is geared towards electronics
`23
`and electrical engineers, not to say computer
`24
`science people. Computer science people may
`25
`have their own definition of the name
`
`1
`identifier.
`2
` So if you look at the ACM community,
`3 which is the main community for computer
`4
`science people, they may have their own
`5
`definition of identifier. I'm not going to say
`6
`that one definition is better than the other
`7
`one.
`8
` Q. Does the -- Is the term identifier
`9
`as its used by electro-electronic engineers
`10
`differ in any way from how it's used in the
`11
`field of computer science?
`12
` A. I need to know what the definition
`13
`is. There are glossaries and so on. I would
`14
`need to know what the definition is.
`15
` Q. In computer science, what does
`16
`identifier mean?
`17
` A. Again, it is something that
`18
`identifies something.
`19
` Q. Now, if we -- When you say it's
`20
`something that identifies something, does the
`21
`something have to be a symbol, character, group
`22
`of characters?
`23
` MR. GOLDBERG: Objection to form.
`24
` A. Which something? There are two
`25
`somethings in my sentence.
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`Page 12
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`Page 13
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`1
` Q. Yeah, when it's something that
`2
`identifies something, the first something, the
`3
`thing that's doing the identifying, the
`4
`identifier --
`5
` A. Yes.
`6
` Q. -- to be an identifier, it's going
`7
`to have to be some sort of name, label,
`8
`alphanumeric group, or symbol that identifies
`9
`something, correct?
`10
` A. Not necessarily.
`11
` Q. Why not?
`12
` A. There could be other ways to
`13
`identify something.
`14
` Q. What other ways?
`15
` A. Well, for instance, if I think of
`16
`President Obama's address to nation last night,
`17
`I can just say it's President Obama's address
`18
`to nation last night. It's not written. It's
`19
`not converted to numbers or anything. It's
`20
`just words, and someone else may say
`21
`differently. It still identifies the event and
`22
`the TV work.
`23
` Q. All right. You gave me an example
`24
`of a spoken identifier. The example you gave
`25 me was a group of words; is that correct?
`
`1
` A. In my example, yes.
`2
` Q. Let's assume we have an identifier
`3
`that's recorded in a computer system.
`4 Withdraw.
`5
` Is it your understanding that the
`6
`electronic media work identifier that's used in
`7
`the '464 patent is an identifier that is stored
`8
`in a computer system?
`9
` A. Not necessarily.
`10
` Q. When would it not be stored in the
`11
`computer system?
`12
` A. It could be stored on another
`13 medium, let's say a VHS tape.
`14
` Q. If an identifier is stored on a VHS
`15
`tape, then it would not be stored in a computer
`16
`system; is that correct?
`17
` A. The tape itself is not a computer.
`18
` Q. Is it the case that to be an
`19
`electronic media -- Withdrawn.
`20
` Is it the case that for something to
`21
`be an electronic media work identifier as used
`22
`in the '464 patent, it is going to have to be
`23
`either created by a computer system and
`24
`temporarily stored in a computer system or
`25
`permanently stored in a computer system?
`4 (Pages 10 to 13)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`

`

`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-MHD Document 158-6 Filed 07/19/19 Page 6 of 28
`Page 14
`Page 15
`something to be an identifier, is it going to
`be a symbol or group of characters that is used
`to identify an electronic media work?
` A. Not necessarily.
` Q. When would it not?
` A. The identifier could be, for
`instance, a key picture, a key frame in a video
`sequence.
` Q. Is it the case that -- I want you to
`turn to the Ferris patent.
` A. Let me ask you a question. Is it
`possible to have those documents stapled? It's
`a bit easier to handle.
` MR. GOLDBERG: I suppose we can
` find -- try and find a stapler or clips or
` something from the hotel. Greg, any issues
` with that?
` MR. DOVEL: That's fine. Do you
` want to take a break to do it now or do it
` later?
` MR. GOLDBERG: Let's just take -- We
` can just take a one-minute break.
` MR. DOVEL: All right. Let's do
` that.
` (A short break was taken.)
`
` A. No.
` Q. If a computer system uses an
`electronic media work identifier, is it going
`to have that electronic media work identifier
`stored in memory?
` A. It could be stored in various places
`in a computer. It could be ROM. It could be
`in some register. It has to be stored
`somewhere if it's represented.
` Q. If an electronic media work
`identifier is used by a computer system, will
`it consist of a group of characters or symbols
`that identify an electronic media work?
` A. Not necessarily.
` Q. When would it not?
` A. The computer could use various types
`of representations. It does not really matter.
`It could be represented -- Anything on a
`computer could be represented by a sequence of
`bits, for instance. In some other processors
`it could be represented in hexadecimal format.
`It depends on the device.
` Q. My question wasn't about whether it
`could be represented in any one format or
`another. Whatever format it's in, for
`
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`Page 16
`1
` Q. I'd like you to turn to Page 11 of
`2
`the Ferris reference, which is Exhibit 1006.
`3 At the bottom of Page 11, carrying over to
`4
`Page 12, the Ferris reference discusses audio
`5
`and/or video samples supplied ahead of time
`6
`taken from programs.
`7
` Do you see that?
`8
` A. Where on the page?
`9
` Q. The very bottom of Page 11.
`10
` A. The bottom reads Figures 2A through
`11
`2L. Is that the one? Page 11.
`12
` Q. No, there are two different sets of
`13
`page numbers on this exhibit.
`14
` A. Oh, I see. Yes, I see now. Okay.
`15
` Q. So at the bottom of Page 11 on the
`16
`Ferris reference, do you see where it refers to
`17
`various audio and/or video samples supplied
`18
`ahead of time taken from the programs.
`19
` Do you see that?
`20
` A. Yes.
`21
` Q. Are these samples in Ferris
`22
`electronic media works?
`23
` A. Not necessarily.
`24
` Q. In what circumstance would they not
`25
`be electronic media works?
`
`1
` A. Well, they could be much more
`2
`compacted versions of multimedia works.
`3
` Q. Is a compacted version of a media
`4 work not an electronic media work?
`5
` A. It depends how much compacted it is.
`6
` Q. Why does compaction result in
`7
`something not being an electronic media work?
`8
` A. Can you repeat the question?
`9
` Q. Why is it that compaction results in
`10
`turning something that otherwise would be an
`11
`electronic media work into something that is
`12
`not an electronic media work?
`13
` A. Well, those samples could be, again
`14
`if they're compacted, could be thought of as
`15
`simply electronic media work identifiers.
`16
` Q. If something is an electronic media
`17 work identifier, is it no longer an electronic
`18 media work?
`19
` A. It could be both. It's not
`20
`exclusive.
`21
` Q. I'll get back to my question, then.
`22
` How does compaction turn something
`23
`that is otherwise an electronic media work into
`24
`something that is not an electronic media work?
`25
` A. As an example, if by compaction one
`5 (Pages 14 to 17)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`

`

`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-MHD Document 158-6 Filed 07/19/19 Page 7 of 28
`Page 18
`Page 19
`1
`don't do -- the compaction just changes the
`2
`format.
`3
` A. I don't understand what you mean.
`4
` Q. Well, you told me it depends how
`5
`it's done, whether something is turned into an
`6
`electronic work media identifier.
`7
` Describe for me in a way that we
`8 would have an electronic media work video file
`9
`that would not be an electronic media work
`10
`identifier?
`11
` A. The video file itself can be thought
`12
`of as an identifier, so I don't agree with the
`13
`premise of your question.
`14
` Q. Well, you told me it depends.
`15
` A. Yes.
`16
` Q. In some ways it does; some ways it
`17
`does not, right?
`18
` A. Right. When you're applying -- Go
`19
`ahead.
`20
` Q. So give me an example where we have
`21
`an electronic media work file that would not be
`22
`an electronic media work identifier?
`23
` A. There's no such example I can think
`24
`of.
`25
` Q. As you use the term electronic media
`Page 21
`
`1
`reduces a video file to a short bit string,
`2
`that would not be an electronic media work. It
`3 would be an identifier, as an example.
`4
` Q. Now, let's assume we don't use
`5
`compaction to take a video file and reduce it
`6
`to a short bit string. Would it then be an
`7
`electronic media work and not an identifier?
`8
` A. It depends on what is done.
`9
` Q. Suppose there's no compaction at
`10
`all. We just have a video file. We don't do
`11
`any compaction in its original format. In that
`12
`instance, would you agree we have an electronic
`13 media work and something that's not a media
`14 work identifier?
`15
` A. I disagree.
`16
` Q. Why?
`17
` A. In this case, it is both. It is
`18
`both a media work and a media work identifier.
`19
` Q. Well, you told me that if we take an
`20
`electronic media work and we compact it, we can
`21
`turn it into an electronic media work
`22
`identifier, right?
`23
` A. It depends how it is done.
`24
` Q. Let's assume it's done in a way that
`25
`does not turn it into an identifier. We
`
`Page 20
`1 work identifier in connection with your work in
`2
`the declaration, for you, did it have the same
`3 meaning as electronic media work?
`4
` A. It could have the same meaning. It
`5
`does not have to.
`6
` Q. I didn't ask whether it could have.
`7
`I asked you in doing your work in connection
`8 with your work on the declaration and applying
`9
`the term electronic media work identifier,
`10
`did -- as you applied it, is an electronic
`11 media work identifier and electronic media work
`12
`the same thing?
`13
` A. Not in general, no.
`14
` Q. Give me an example of where an
`15
`electronic media work and electronic media work
`16
`identifier are not the same thing as you used
`17
`those terms in connection with your work on the
`18
`declaration?
`19
` A. Well, an example I give you is if a
`20
`video file is compacted and represented by a
`21
`bit string, then that bit string is an
`22
`identifier, but you will not think of it as a
`23 media work.
`24
` Q. Can you give me an example --
`25 Withdrawn.
`
`1
` As you used the terms electronic
`2 media work and electronic media work identifier
`3
`in your declaration, is it the case that every
`4
`electronic media work is an electronic media
`5 work identifier?
`6
` A. One can think of it that way, yes.
`7
` Q. I didn't ask you whether one can
`8
`think of it that way. Is that how you used the
`9
`definition of those terms when you --
`10
` A. That -- sorry.
`11
` Q. I'm sorry?
`12
` A. That issue was not relevant in my
`13
`declaration.
`14
` Q. I want you to assume that we have --
`15 Withdrawn.
`16
` If we look at the Ferris patent at
`17
`Page 11 to Page 12, it refers to audio and/or
`18
`video samples. Does Ferris provide any more
`19
`detail about what those samples are, other than
`20 what's presented there in that paragraph on
`21
`Pages 11 through 12?
`22
` A. I don't see any.
`23
` Q. An audio or video sample could be,
`24
`for example, a 30-second video clip from an
`25
`infomercial, right?
`
`6 (Pages 18 to 21)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`

`

`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-MHD Document 158-6 Filed 07/19/19 Page 8 of 28
`Page 22
`Page 23
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`1
` A. It could be.
`2
` Q. In the '464 patent, is the phrase
`3
`computer system used with its ordinary meaning
`4
`in the field; or is it given some special
`5
`definition in the patent?
`6
` A. I don't recall it was given a
`7
`special definition.
`8
` Q. What is the term computer --
`9 Withdrawn.
`10
` What does the phrase computer system
`11 mean with its ordinary definition in the field?
`12
` A. If one thinks of the broadest
`13
`definition, it would be any system that
`14
`includes computers. Any system that computes.
`15
` Q. I'd like you to turn to Paragraph 58
`16
`in your declaration.
`17
` A. Yes.
`18
` Q. In Paragraph 58, you say: To the
`19
`extent Ferris does not explicitly disclose the
`20
`hardware implementation of broadcaster 402, it
`21 would have been obvious to one of ordinary
`22
`skill in the art to implement broadcaster 402
`23
`using a computer.
`24
` Do you see that?
`25
` A. Yes.
`
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`
` Q. And then in Paragraph 59, you
`provide an example of a reference Lambert that
`used a minicomputer to control switching of
`video programs, right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. And then you go on to provide an
`analysis and opinion that it would have been
`obvious to implement the broadcasters 402 in
`Ferris using the minicomputer from Lambert,
`right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Does the Ferris reference by itself
`expressly disclose that broadcasters 402 is
`implemented using a computer system?
` A. Ferris does not disclose any
`hardware implementation of broadcaster 402.
` Q. Does Ferris disclose implementing
`broadcasters 402 using a computer system?
` A. It again does not disclose any such
`detail.
` Q. Is it inherent in Ferris that
`broadcasters 402 would be implemented using a
`computer system?
` A. What do you mean by "inherent"?
` Q. Necessarily the case. It could be
`Page 25
`assumption. Are you saying that broadcaster
`402 would be implemented without any computer?
` Q. That's right.
` A. That seems hard to imagine. This is
`1997 patent. It's hard to imagine any
`broadcaster would not have any computer. It is
`widely used in '97, which is the time the
`Ferris patent was filed. So I don't know if I
`agree with your assumption.
` Q. Well, I'm not asking you whether you
`agree or not. I want you to assume that
`broadcasters 402 is not implemented using a
`computer. In that case, would you agree that
`broadcasters 402 is not part of a computer
`system?
` A. I disagree.
` Q. Why?
` A. Even under your assumption, which I
`disagree with, even if broadcaster 402 did not
`have any computer, broadcaster 402 could still
`be part of a larger computer system.
` Q. Do you agree that the central
`processing station 420 is a computer system?
` A. Yes.
` Q. Now, in the '464 patent, one of the
`7 (Pages 22 to 25)
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide 877-702-9580
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`Page 24
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`done no other way.
`2
` A. I would have to think about it.
`3
` Q. Let's assume -- Withdrawn.
`4
` If Ferris does not disclose
`5
`implementing broadcasters 402 using a computer
`6
`system -- Withdrawn.
`7
` Let's assume that broadcasters 402
`8
`is not implemented using a computer system as
`9
`in Lambert. So assume we're not using the
`10
`combination that you've opined about.
`11
` A. I don't know --
`12
` Q. Is it the case -- Sorry. Go ahead.
`13
` A. Go ahead.
`14
` Q. I want you to assume that
`15
`broadcasters 402 -- Withdrawn.
`16
` I want you to assume that we don't
`17
`combine Ferris with a prior art reference that
`18
`suggests using a computer system for video
`19
`switching.
`20
` A. I --
`21
` Q. And that we implement Ferris just
`22 with what's disclosed with broadcasters 402.
`23
`In that case, would you agree that broadcasters
`24
`402 is not part of a computer system?
`25
` A. Let me make sure I understand your
`
`

`

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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-MHD Document 158-6 Filed 07/19/19 Page 9 of 28
`Page 26
`Page 27
`1
`elements is receiving by a computer system a
`2
`first electronic work. And you discuss that in
`3
`your declaration on Page 34 at the bottom of
`4
`34.
`5
` Do you have that in front of you?
`6
` A. Let me get it. Yes.
`7
` Q. Does the term "receiving" as it's
`8
`used in the phrase "receiving by a computer
`9
`system," does the term "receiving" have its
`10
`ordinary meaning in the field?
`11
` A. That's my understanding, yes.
`12
` Q. I want you to assume you've got a
`13
`computer system that contains an electronic
`14 media work, and the computer system transfers
`15
`the electronic media work within the system
`16
`from one component to another.
`17
` Is the transfer the act of receiving
`18
`an electronic media work?
`19
` A. You're talking, if I understand
`20
`correctly, about an internal operation within
`21
`the computer system, so that's not receiving.
`22
`It's an operation within the computer system
`23
`itself.
`24
` Q. What does it mean for a computer
`25
`system to receive an electronic work as that's
`Page 28
`1
`that's required by claim 1 of the '464 patent,
`2
`right?
`3
` A. I didn't think of it that way. I
`4
`think of it -- My opinion is the computer
`5
`system is the entirety of 402 and 420 together.
`6 And so what is received by the computer
`7
`system -- by the computer system is an
`8
`electronic media work.
`9
` Q. In your declaration at Pages 34 and
`10
`35, that's where you have your analysis of
`11
`element 1A of the '464 patent, right?
`12
` A. At least there, yes.
`13
` Q. And what you identify is that
`14
`broadcasters 402 broadcast a transmission
`15
`signal that is received by the central
`16
`processing system 420, right?
`17
` A. Yeah. So just to make clear, in my
`18
`analysis, I say that the computer system is
`19
`central processing system 420 together with
`20
`broadcasters 402. You're talking here about a
`21
`different computer system. You're talking
`22
`about 420 alone. Just to make it clear, in
`23 my analysis, the computer system is 420 and
`24
`402 together.
`25
` Q. I'm talking about what you've
`
`used in the '464 patent?
` A. Well, you have a system, a computer
`system, which receives some inputs. And that
`input would be electronic media work.
` Q. Does it require that the computer
`system receive the electronic media work as an
`input to the computer system?
` A. If it receives, it comes from
`outside, yes.
` Q. In your analysis of Ferris, you say
`that central processing system 420 receives the
`transmission signal, just the claimed receiving
`by a computer system.
` Do you see that?
` A. Where?
` Q. It's at the top of Page 35.
` A. Yes.
` Q. The central processing system 420
`receives the transmission signal from
`broadcasters 402, right?
` A. Yes.
` Q. When broadcasters 402 broadcast a
`transmission signal to central processing
`system 420, is it your opinion that that
`constitutes the receiving by a computer system
`Page 29
`1 written here in your analysis of the receiving
`2
`by a computer system element. Do you see that?
`3
` A. Yes.
`4
` Q. And what you say is the receiving is
`5
`the receiving of -- the receiving by the
`6
`central processing system 420 of the broadcast
`7
`transmission signal from broadcaster 402,
`8
`right?
`9
` A. So there are two ways in which, say,
`10
`a computer system receives electronic media
`11 work. For one thing, there's broadcasters 402
`12
`feeding into the central processing station
`13
`420, and then also there's broadcasters 402
`14
`receiving live feed from video cameras or video
`15
`play from tape. So there are two ways that I
`16
`identified in my analysis.
`17
` Q. Well, what you say is central
`18
`processing system 420 receives the transmission
`19
`signal, open paren, the claimed receiving by
`20
`the computer system.
`21
` Do you see that?
`22
` A. Yes.
`23
` Q. You're asserting here that when
`24
`central processing system 420 receives a
`25
`transmission signal, that constitutes the
`8 (Pages 26 to 29)
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`Case 1:14-cv-02396-PGG-MHD Document 158-6 Filed 07/19/19 Page 10 of 28
`Page 30
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`receiving by a computer system that's in the
`video cameras and video play from tape, right?
`2
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`claim, right?
` A. Yes.
`3
`3
` A. I didn't write it that way, no.
` Q. When a broadcaster 402 has video
`4
`4
` Q. Would you agree that the sentence
`played from tape or live feed from video
`5
`5
`you wrote is: Central processing system 420
`cameras, that's referring to something that is
`6
`6 within broadcasters 402, right?
`receives the transmission signal, open paren,
`7
`7
`the claimed, quote, receiving by a computer
` A. No. Not necessarily.
`8
`8
`system, close quote, close paren?
` Q. When would it not be necessarily?
`9
`9
` A. Yes. That's written, yes.
` A. Well, if there's live feed from
`10
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` Q. A reasonable reading of that
`video cameras, they come from outside. Just
`11
`11
`sentence is that you intended to assert that
`taking an example, yesterday's state to the
`12
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`the act of receiving the transmission signal by
`nation, well, the broadcaster may be in New
`13
`13 York and the president is speaking from
`the central processing system 420 constitutes
`14
`14 Washington, D.C., so it comes from outside.
`the claimed receiving by a computer system?
`15
`15
` A. That would be one reading. But
` Q. It could be inside; it could be
`16
`16
`again, to make it clear, broadcasters 402 as
`outside, right?
`17 written in the paragraph below, receive also
`17
` A. Yes.
`18
`18
`feed, live feed from video cameras and as well
` Q. Does -- Would you agree that it's
`19
`19
`as video play from tape. So you have to take
`not inherent that it would be outside of
`20
`20
`it all together.
`broadcasters 402?
`21
`21
` Q. I'll get to that part in a second.
` A. It could be either from inside or
`22
`22
` Now, would you agree that --
`from outside. Both are very common in
`23 Withdrawn.
`23
`broadcasting.
`24
`24
` What Ferris says is that the
` Q. Would you agree that Ferris does not
`25
`25
`broadcasters 402 could utilize live feed from
`expressly disclose that the live feed from
`Page 32
`Page 33
`1
`video cameras is from outside broadcasters 402?
`2
` A. It's well understood that if a TV
`3
`station shows something, it usually comes from
`4
`outside. It's not limited to broadcasting
`5 what's happening inside the studio, which would
`6
`not be interesting to the audience.
`7
` Q. I didn't ask you about the limited.
`8
`It was about express disclosure. So I'll ask
`9
`the question again. I'd like to get an answer.
`10
` Would you agree that Ferris does not
`11
`expressly disclose that broadcasters 402
`12
`receives live video -- live feed from video
`13
`cameras from outside of broadcasters 402?
`14
` A. It does not say from outside
`15
`explicitly, no.
`16
` Q. I'd like you to turn to the next
`17
`page of your declaration. Actually, we've got
`18
`to go to Page 38.
`19
` A. Yes.
`20
` Q. Here you say that the claimed
`21
`storing by the computer system correlation
`22
`information is found in Ferris because central
`23
`processing system 420 stores a result of a
`24
`comparison in memory.
`25
` A. Yes.
`
`1
` Q. Correct?
`2
` A. Yes.
`3
` Q. What is the result of the
`4
`comparison?
`5
` A. A correlation, a correlation
`6
`information.
`7
` Q. What is the result of the -- Well,
`8 withdrawn.
`9
` You assert that it's correlation
`10
`information. But what I want to know is: What
`11
`is the result of the comparison?
`12
` A. It is correlation information, so
`13
`there are different forms it could take.
`14
` Q. Does Ferris identify any details
`15
`about what the result of the comparison would
`16
`look like?
`17
` A. It gives examples.
`18
` Q. What examples?
`19
` A. The comparison could be done using a
`20 matching engine.
`21
` Q. Is that an example