Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41177 Filed 04/30/15 Page 1 of 161
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
`SOUTHERN DIVISION
`EVERLIGHT ELECTRONICS CO.,
`LTD, and EMCORE CORPORATION,
`Plaintiffs,
`
`No. 12-cv-11758
`
`v
`
`NICHIA CORPORATION, and
`NICHIA AMERICA CORPORATION,
`Defendants.
`_________________________/
`
`JURY TRIAL - VOLUME III of XII
`PROCEEDINGS BEFORE THE HONORABLE GERSHWIN A. DRAIN
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
`Theodore Levin United States Courthouse
`231 West Lafayette Boulevard
`Detroit, Michigan
`Thursday, April 9, 2015
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`For the Plaintiffs:
`
`MR. A. MICHAEL PALIZZI
`MR. MICHAEL C. SIMONI
`Miller, Canfield, Paddock and
`Stone, PLC
`150 W. Jefferson Avenue, Suite 2500
`Detroit, Michigan
`48226
`(313) 486-7645
`MR. RAYMOND N. NIMROD
`MR. MATTHEW A. TRAUPMAN
`MS. ANASTASIA M. FERNANDS
`Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan,
`LLP
`51 Madison Avenue, 29th Floor
`New York, New York 10010
`(212) 849-7412
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`1
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`EASTERN DISTRICT OF MICHIGAN
`SOUTHERN DIVISION
`EVERLIGHT ELECTRONICS CO.,
`LTD, and EMCORE CORPORATION,
`Plaintiffs,
`
`No. 12-cv-11758
`
`v
`
`NICHIA CORPORATION, and
`NICHIA AMERICA CORPORATION,
`Defendants.
`_________________________/
`
`JURY TRIAL - VOLUME III of XII
`PROCEEDINGS BEFORE THE HONORABLE GERSHWIN A. DRAIN
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT JUDGE
`Theodore Levin United States Courthouse
`231 West Lafayette Boulevard
`Detroit, Michigan
`Thursday, April 9, 2015
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`For the Plaintiffs:
`
`MR. A. MICHAEL PALIZZI
`MR. MICHAEL C. SIMONI
`Miller, Canfield, Paddock and
`Stone, PLC
`150 W. Jefferson Avenue, Suite 2500
`Detroit, Michigan
`48226
`(313) 486-7645
`MR. RAYMOND N. NIMROD
`MR. MATTHEW A. TRAUPMAN
`MS. ANASTASIA M. FERNANDS
`Quinn Emanuel Urquhart & Sullivan,
`LLP
`51 Madison Avenue, 29th Floor
`New York, New York 10010
`(212) 849-7412
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41178 Filed 04/30/15 Page 2 of 161
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`APPEARANCES:
`For the Defendants:
`
`MR. STEVEN J. RIZZI
`MR. RAMY E. HANNA
`MR. RYAN SCHMID
`Foley and Lardner, LLP
`90 Park Avenue, 37th Floor
`New York, New York 10016
`(212) 682-7474
`MS. LISA S. MANKOFSKY
`Foley & Lardner, LLP
`3000 K Street N. W,
`Washington, DC
`20007
`(202) 672-5300
`MR. JOHN R. TRENTACOSTA
`Foley & Lardner
`500 Woodward Avenue
`Detroit, Michigan
`(313) 234-2800
`
`48226
`
`Suite 600
`
`Reported by:
`
`Merilyn J. Jones, RPR, CSR
`Official Federal Court Reporter
`merilyn_jones@mied.uscourts.gov
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41179 Filed 04/30/15 Page 3 of 161
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`TABLE OF CONTENTS
`
`PLAINTIFF
`WITNESSES:
`ERIC BRETSCHNEIDER
`Direct examination by Mr. Traupman
`
`PAGE
`14
`
`WITNESSES:
`None
`
`DEFENDANT
`
`EXHIBITS:
`
`Identified
`
`Received
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41180 Filed 04/30/15 Page 4 of 161
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`Detroit, Michigan
`Thursday, April 9, 2015
`(Discussion held off the record)
`THE COURT:
`Briefly summarize whatever you think
`needs to go on the record.
`Thank you, your Honor.
`MR. RIZZI:
`Okay.
`So in Dr. Bretschneider's expert report he has a
`total of three pages relating to alleged lack of enablement.
`In those three pages he raises three specific issues that have
`to do with the abilities to make certain semiconductors and --
`I'm sorry -- phosphors and semiconductors.
`These he ties to
`certain claim elements, but his opinions are specific to
`whether full substitution of gadolinium or lanthanum for
`yttrium in the claims, garnet fluorescent material is possible.
`To that one, your Honor, we would submit it's
`clearly covered by your Daubert order, he is not permitted to
`opine on matters of phosphor synthesis.
`The second one has to do with YIG fluorescent
`material; same applies there.
`This is based on a precluded
`opinion that YIG cannot be made.
`And the third one has to do with the ability to
`make an indium nitride semiconductor.
`This one, I would
`submit, your Honor, is not within the scope of your Daubert
`order, the only one that's remaining.
`And he really gives no
`basis at all in this section for why it's supposedly enabled.
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41181 Filed 04/30/15 Page 5 of 161
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`At the very end he has a passing reference to say, my analysis
`is also confirmed by my -- confirmed, but my review of the
`notebooks and other materials as set forth in the section on
`inequitable conduct below, which is not relevant.
`My analysis
`of figures and data is set forth above.
`So what he is saying is, he's not adding, he's not
`adding to what he's set forth.
`He's saying it's confirmed by
`what's in those other sections.
`What plaintiff is trying to do is essentially to
`use that thread, that simple reference to confirm what's in
`here to say, well, now he can opine on all these other matters
`relating to working examples, other working examples that
`supposedly have errors and they want to point all those out to
`the jury.
`None of that was actually set forth where he is
`talking about enablement or lack of enablement as a basis for
`lack of enablement.
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`
`Your Honor, that's just not
`
`accurate.
`
`to come in?
`
`like.
`
`Those folks at the door, do you want
`THE COURT:
`Come in and have a seat.
`MR. RIZZI:
`We can hand up the report, if you
`
`And maybe I can look at your report
`THE COURT:
`while Mr. Traupman is speaking.
`Do you have the same report?
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`Yes, that's the same report.
`I
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`think we're talking about the same thing.
`THE COURT:
`Okay.
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`Your Honor, if you start with
`paragraphs 316 --
`At page 155?
`THE COURT:
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`155, yes.
`THE COURT:
`Okay.
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`He starts and continues on to the
`He lists four limitations which he says are not
`top of 156.
`enabled.
`Those are kind of where the dashes are at the top of
`156.
`To be clear, the only thing that Mr. Rizzi filed his
`Daubert motion on were the first two, which relate to the
`Markush group limitation.
`Those are out of the case right now,
`and, of course, they are out of the case, so we're not going to
`talk about them.
`What's really relevant for this argument is the
`third one, a fluorescent material represented by the general
`formula.
`I'm not going to try to read that formula.
`That's
`what we are talking about here.
`So then if you go down to Paragraph 317, the last
`sentence, he refers to:
`My analysis is confirmed by my review
`of notebooks and other material as set forth in the inequitable
`conduct section below.
`That's not what we are talking about
`right now.
`
`Then it says:
`
`My analysis of figures and data is
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`He is referring to
`
`set forth above.
`Now, notice analysis, A-F-D.
`something specific there.
`And if you go all the way forward to page 33 of
`the report, your Honor --
`Okay.
`THE COURT:
`-- you see there's a whole
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`Section E, analysis of figures and data.
`That's what
`Mr. Bretschneider -- Dr. Bretschneider is referring to in that
`paragraph, saying that my enablement analysis was informed by
`my earlier analysis of figures and data in the report.
`The five or six slides that Mr. Rizzi is objecting
`to are all data of the working examples in the patent that are
`contained in this section.
`It goes on for -- all the way up
`through paragraph 110 on page -- yeah, paragraph 110 on page
`46, so it goes on for about ten pages of analysis.
`He didn't
`copy it again in the enablement section, he incorporated it by
`reference.
`It's already a voluminous report, as your Honor can
`see, but he's clearly referring to this as part of his
`enablement analysis.
`MR. RIZZI:
`
`A couple responses to that, your
`
`Honor.
`
`First of all, Mr. Traupman is wrong about the
`scope of your Daubert.
`Your Daubert concluded that
`Dr. Bretschneider is not qualified to testify on phosphor
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41184 Filed 04/30/15 Page 8 of 161
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`synthesis.
`
`All of these, except for the last one, the first
`synthesis.
`limitations in 316 all relate to phosphor synthesis.
`So it's
`not limited to just the Markush group.
`It just so happens at
`the time, that's all they were alleging.
`And the first two are
`Markush groups.
`The third clearly relates to phosphor
`synthesis, as well.
`So he is not permitted to opine on any
`matters concerning phosphor synthesis.
`THE COURT:
`Are you talking about page 156 --
`MR. RIZZI:
`Yes, your Honor.
`THE COURT:
`-- that third where Mr. Traupman read
`a fluorescent material represented by --
`MR. RIZZI:
`Yes, that also involves phosphor
`There is no dispute there.
`THE COURT:
`Is that correct?
`It's
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`No, it's not, your Honor.
`absolutely not.
`There is evidence in the record that the
`phosphors can be made.
`You can make a garnet structure.
`Dr. Bretschneider is not going to talk about making garnet
`structures, but as you heard, he has got lots of experience
`using phosphors, putting phosphors into LEDs, and there is
`uncontroverted evidence from the inventors' own notebooks that
`show you can make the phosphors in here, so synthesis has
`nothing to do with it, but they don't emit any light.
`So they
`don't work in an LED.
`This has to do with whether or not the
`complete LED works.
`It has nothing to do with phosphor
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41185 Filed 04/30/15 Page 9 of 161
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`synthesis.
`
`And, your Honor, both Nichia's motion, Daubert
`motion, and your Honor's Daubert order is very specific to
`the Markush group limitation.
`I can read for you the --
`Nichia's Daubert motion has a section, it's entitled,
`Dr. Bretschneider's Opinion and Testimony Regarding Enablement
`of the Markush Group's Phosphor Limitations in the '925 Patent
`Should be Included.
`That's what the subject of their Daubert
`motion was, and, again, that has got nothing to do with this
`other limitation.
`MR. RIZZI:
`THE COURT:
`up, about what time?
`Later in the day.
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`THE COURT:
`I mean, like about what time?
`time do you think you will get to that?
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`11:00, approximately 11:00, give or
`
`Your Honor, this is the Markush group.
`Let me ask, when is this going to come
`
`What
`
`take.
`
`So we'll take another -- I'm sure
`THE COURT:
`we'll take a break before this actually comes up.
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`I would suspect so.
`THE COURT:
`So I will have a chance to look at --
`MR. RIZZI:
`Can I briefly respond to this last
`point, your Honor?
`THE COURT:
`
`Okay.
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`So it's completely wrong that the --
`MR. RIZZI:
`your order was somehow limited to only certain Markush groups
`and others.
`Your order covered phosphor synthesis.
`That
`limitation also covered phosphor synthesis.
`So he is precluded
`from testifying as to any matters concerning the ability or
`inability to make phosphors and whether certain phosphors would
`or would not emit light.
`That is outside the scope of what he
`is permitted to testify to.
`Moreover, if you actually look at the enablement
`section and what they're saying, this is all about the ability
`to make the phosphors.
`It has nothing to do with whether the
`phosphors can be used in an LED.
`And that's what they are now
`trying to shoehorn in to try to tie it back in to the other
`examples, which were nowhere referenced as a separate basis for
`lack of enablement.
`Your Honor, a couple points.
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`Let me be very clear, I understand your Honor's
`Dr. Bretschneider is not going to say a word about
`order.
`phosphor synthesis.
`I'm not -- to be clear, I'm not going to
`do that.
`We're not going to talk about how you make any garnet
`phosphor, how you make it, not going to happen.
`MR. RIZZI:
`But the --
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`Excuse me, I'm not done.
`MR. RIZZI:
`You can finish.
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`That's not what these opinions --
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`These are opinions
`that's not what these opinions are about.
`about whether or not the garnet, once you get the garnet
`phosphor, they work in an LED.
`That's different from phosphor
`synthesis and to be clear, this third limitation on page 156 of
`Dr. Bretschneider's report, it's not a Markush group
`limitation.
`A Markush group limitation is when you have at
`least one element selected from the group consisting of.
`That's the definition of a Markush group limitation.
`That's in
`the first two limitations on 156.
`And let me read from your Honor's Daubert order.
`
`You state --
`
`order?
`
`THE COURT:
`
`What page are you reading from in my
`
`Very first
`Page 14, your Honor.
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`sentence of section two, you summarize exactly what I just
`said.
`
`Nichia argues that Dr. Bretschneider's opinions
`regarding enablement of the Markush group phosphor limitation
`should be excluded.
`And then you conclude, this is the last sentence
`Therefore, Dr. Bretschneider's opinions concerning
`on page 16:
`enablement of the Markush group limitation are inadmissible.
`The Court will grant Nichia's Daubert motion with respect to
`Dr. Bretschneider's enablement opinions related to the Markush
`group limitation only.
`That's, that's page 16 of your Daubert
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`order.
`
`This is not the Markush group limitation.
`MR. RIZZI:
`Your Honor, it had nothing to do with
`whether or not it was or wasn't a Markush group limitation.
`It had to do with his ability to opine on whether certain
`phosphors could or couldn't be made.
`One of those was
`gadolinium aluminum garnet.
`That phosphor is covered by that
`third limitation.
`And you can say it's not a Markush --
`THE COURT:
`I've heard enough argument on this.
`I'm going to look at it at some time before or during the break
`and I'll make a decision after the break.
`We will be in recess.
`We will get started in
`probably about five or ten minutes.
`THE CLERK:
`All rise.
`(At 8:22 a.m.
`to 8:32 a.m. court in recess)
`THE CLERK:
`All rise.
`The United States District
`Court for the Eastern District of Michigan is back in session.
`Calling Civil Action, Everlight Electronics
`Company versus Nichia Corporation, Number 12-11758.
`You may be seated.
`Counsel, please put your appearance on the record.
`MR. NIMROD:
`Good morning, your Honor.
`Ray Nimrod
`from Quinn Emanuel on behalf of the Everlight companies.
`Matt
`Traupman from my firm; Mike Simoni and Mike Palizzi from Miller
`Canfield; and our corporate representative.
`MR. RIZZI:
`Good morning, your Honor. Steven Rizzi
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`from Foley & Lardner, with my co-counsel, Ramy Hanna, Ryan
`Schmid, Lisa Mankofsky, John Trentacosta; and our corporate
`representative, Dr. Dan Doxsee.
`Let's bring the jury in.
`THE COURT:
`Okay.
`Mr. Bretschneider, you can resume the witness
`
`stand.
`
`For the jury.
`
`All rise.
`THE CLERK:
`(At 8:33 a.m. jury present)
`You may be seated.
`THE COURT:
`All right.
`Good morning, ladies and gentlemen.
`JURORS:
`Good morning.
`THE COURT:
`It's nice to again see everyone here
`I know the buzzer, I heard back in chambers
`on time.
`indicating that everybody was here and ready, it's a wonderful
`thing.
`So thank you for being prompt and punctual.
`Let me also tell you that the lawyers and I have
`been here for some time.
`We were here in court at about a
`little after 8:00, about 8:05 or so, and we have been trying to
`resolve some legal matters, and they come up repeatedly.
`And we were in session, actually, most of the day
`Monday resolving legal matters, and even Tuesday afternoon we
`were resolving some legal matters.
`So the time that we spend in front of you is just
`a portion of what's going on on this case.
`Again, thanks for being here on time and we're
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`ready to continue.
`Mr. Traupman, are you ready to continue with your
`
`examination?
`
`Yes, your Honor.
`MR. TRAUPMAN:
`All right.
`THE COURT:
`B R E T S C H N E I D E R,
`E R I C
`called by the Plaintiff at 8:34 a.m., sworn by the Clerk,
`testified as follows:
`DIRECT EXAMINATION (Continued)
`
`BY MR. TRAUPMAN:
`Q.
`Dr. Bretschneider, we'll pick up with yesterday's
`conversation of an LED package in just a second, but when I got
`home yesterday and started thinking about my examination, I
`realized I forgot to ask you a couple of basic questions.
`So the slide presentation both yesterday and today
`that you were showing the jury, who prepared that?
`A.
`I did.
`I had a lot of help with graphic artists.
`to thank them.
`Q.
`Who selected all the materials that are in the slides that
`you are presenting both yesterday and today?
`A.
`I did.
`Any highlighting of the documents, you show a
`Q.
`Okay.
`particular portion of a document that's highlighted, who
`selected the highlighting?
`A.
`I did.
`
`I have
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`And you mentioned that you prepared some expert reports in
`Q.
`this case.
`If you put all the attachments on the expert
`reports, do you know about how many pages there were?
`A.
`I think that's over 2,000.
`Q.
`So what's the purpose of the slide presentation here, both
`yesterday and today?
`A.
`To summarize and get to the key points.
`Q.
`So with that, let's get back.
`We were -- when we ended
`the day yesterday we were talking about an LED package, and
`just, I think you did it at the end of the day yesterday, but
`just to reorient ourselves, can you just walk us through the
`basic components of an LED package, please, Dr. Bretschneider?
`A.
`Yes.
`This, the lead frame, this is just a metal
`structure.
`It does two things.
`It holds the chip, and also,
`with the -- in conjunction with these wires it makes electrical
`contact to the chip.
`As you saw yesterday, these chips are
`very, very small and it would be difficult to use them without
`something closer to normal size.
`The cup it sits in is used to help reflect light.
`The resin on top helps protect the chip and the wire bonds, as
`well.
`And then we have a lens on .
`And that's the basic LED
`package.
`Q.
`How long has this basic LED package, this basic structure
`of the LED package been known?
`A.
`At lease since the early 1960s.
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41192 Filed 04/30/15 Page 16 of 161
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`If we go on to slide 35, if someone wanted to add a
`Okay.
`Q.
`phosphor into the LED package, how would they go about doing
`that?
`A.
`The resin here, this is typically an epoxy or silicon
`material that hardens when you heat it up and the easiest way
`is to put the phosphor in the resin here and then put the lens
`on top later.
`Q.
`Just when we were talking about the resin, can you explain
`how the resin works?
`How does it -- how does that process of
`putting a resin into the LED package work?
`A.
`It's basically with a syringe.
`There's usually two
`components, these are mixed together.
`If anyone has used
`quick-set epoxy from Home Depot or Lowes, you have got two
`syringes, you mix the material and you put it on whatever you
`want to protect or glue.
`Q.
`So the two syringes have a gel type of material?
`A.
`It's typically a thick material.
`It's kind of like honey
`or syrup.
`Q.
`And then when the two materials mix together, what
`happens?
`At room temperature most
`A.
`That starts a chemical reaction.
`of these materials, the reaction doesn't happen very fast, so
`it will be put into an oven that speeds it up.
`Q.
`And ultimately, what do you get out of the oven then?
`A.
`It hardens.
`If it's an epoxy it will be a very hard
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41193 Filed 04/30/15 Page 17 of 161
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`17
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`With a silicone it will be kind of like a gel, like
`material.
`a fishing worm.
`Q.
`And how long has the basic process of adding a phosphor
`into and LED package been known?
`A.
`Again, this was done in the 1960s.
`Q.
`Okay.
`So let's talk a little bit about the history of
`LEDs.
`When were they first made?
`A.
`The first LED, the very first ones emitted infrared light.
`Those were done in the late '50s.
`And then in 1962 we finally
`got a visible LED.
`Q.
`What color of light did the first visible LED emit?
`A.
`It was red.
`Q.
`And so what, then, happened after, as far as LED
`development goes, after that red LED was developed in the early
`'60s?
`A.
`By the late '60s and early '70s, we had worked our way up
`to green.
`Q.
`What were some of the first uses of these red and green
`LEDs?
`A.
`The very first ones were as indicators on electronic
`equipment, a lot like we see power indicators today.
`If you
`turn on your computer or a monitor you'll see a little glowing
`light; that's what they were done.
`I
`They were also used for numerical displays.
`think I may have said yesterday, the Pulsar watch in the early
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41194 Filed 04/30/15 Page 18 of 161
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`18
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`'70s was one of the big ones, as well as Hewlett-Packard
`calculators.
`Q.
`So by the early '70s we have red LEDs and green LEDs, and
`so what was the range of colors, what was the range of colors,
`then, that we could make with these two color of LEDs?
`A.
`We could do red, orange, yellow and green.
`Q.
`Okay.
`So after red LEDs were developed and green LEDs
`were developed, what was the focus of the LED industry?
`A.
`Everyone started looking for a blue LED.
`We knew from
`Isaac Newton, if you want to fill the color circle, if you have
`blue light, then you can make all the other colors.
`Q.
`Were they able to come up with blue LEDs quickly?
`A.
`No, they weren't.
`It actually took a lot longer than
`everyone thought.
`It proved to be a lot more difficult.
`Q.
`So how long did we have to wait?
`A.
`It was over 20 years.
`And I think this long time delay is
`no small part of the reason why a Nobel Prize was awarded for
`developing a blue LED.
`Q.
`So when was the blue LED first developed?
`A.
`Commercialized and developed was 1993.
`Q.
`And who was responsible for developing the first blue LED?
`A.
`There were three individuals.
`There was Shuji Nakamura at
`Nichia, Drs. Akasaki and Amano at Nagoya University, working
`with Toyoda Gosei.
`Q.
`What materials did Dr. Nakamura and Professors Akasaki and
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41195 Filed 04/30/15 Page 19 of 161
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`19
`
`Amano use to make a blue LED?
`A.
`They used gallium nitride.
`Q.
`So once we get a blue LED in 1993, what was the LED
`industry's reaction to that development?
`Everyone was
`A.
`It was actually a very, very big deal.
`finally satisfied.
`We knew we had all three colors.
`We could
`mix them, we could use them with phosphors and make any color
`we wanted, including white.
`Q.
`Can you give some personal examples or share your personal
`experiences with the significance of the development of the
`blue LED?
`There were some conferences where badges would be
`A.
`Yes.
`given out that had a small, flashing blue LED.
`People would
`try to steal them.
`I actually know people who paid double
`registration fees just to get a second one, a few hundred
`dollars.
`Q.
`Why were people so anxious to get their hands on even a
`tiny little blue LED?
`A.
`Kids talk about, can't wait 'til Christmas, we had waited
`over 20 years to get it, so it was a very big deal.
`Q.
`So once LED scientists finally had that blue LED, what did
`they do with it?
`A.
`They started mixing it with other colors, playing around
`with phosphors.
`It's a very obvious thing once you have blue
`light.
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41196 Filed 04/30/15 Page 20 of 161
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`20
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`What colors did they try to make?
`Q.
`All of them, including white.
`A.
`Okay.
`So knowing the color of the brand new blue LED,
`Q.
`what color phosphor did people -- did LED scientists choose to
`make white light?
`If you want
`A.
`Again, we have to go back to the color wheel.
`to use a single phosphor, you're going to use yellow.
`Again,
`this has been known for 300 years.
`Q.
`Okay.
`And how did they -- how specifically did they know
`to use a yellow phosphor?
`There was a lot of
`A.
`Again, Isaac Newton taught us this.
`work since then, but he's the one most people remember.
`Q.
`So if we go to the next slide, can you tell us what you're
`showing here?
`This would
`A.
`This is an example of a typical white LED.
`have been the easiest, most obvious route to pursue.
`So we
`have the lead frame, the LED chip, here's the resin, and again,
`this is the easiest place to put the phosphor, and then we have
`the lens around it.
`Q.
`So then if we turn the light on, on the LED, can you tell
`us what happens?
`A.
`Blue light comes out of the LED chip, hits the phosphor,
`some of it is absorbed, turned into yellow, some of it goes
`through, blue and yellow come out, and as I said yesterday, our
`eyes see this as white.
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41197 Filed 04/30/15 Page 21 of 161
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`21
`
`So you mentioned the gentlemen who developed the blue LED
`Q.
`were Professors Akasaki and Amano and Dr. Nakamura.
`Did they
`receive any awards for their work?
`A.
`They received numerous awards over the years, but again,
`the most significant was the Nobel Prize in physics last year.
`Q.
`If we go to slide 39, which is plaintiff's -- an excerpt
`from Plaintiff's Exhibit 490, what is this document?
`A.
`This is actually about the Nobel Prize.
`This is the
`citation from the Nobel Institute.
`Q.
`And what did the Nobel Institute say about the blue LED?
`A.
`They sum up what I was talking about briefly, that we got
`our first LEDs in the 1950s and '60s.
`We got different
`wavelengths.
`We were able to get from the infrared, red up to
`green, and then we started work on blue.
`And again, it took a
`very long time.
`People originally thought that by the mid '70s
`we'd have blue; didn't happen then.
`Didn't happen in the '80s.
`And then in the '90s, we finally got it.
`Q.
`If we go to the next slide, slide 39, can you tell us what
`the Nobel Prize Committee said about the impact of the blue
`LED?
`They're basically stating that the blue LEDs are what
`A.
`enabled white.
`That was the one that we really needed.
`And as
`the blue LED efficiency increased, this is what has given us
`energy-saving white light.
`Q.
`Specifically, they state that the efficient -- the
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41198 Filed 04/30/15 Page 22 of 161
`
`22
`
`invention of efficient blue LEDs has led to white light sources
`for illumination.
`When exciting a phosphor material, a blue
`LED light is emitted in the green and red spectral ranges,
`which combined with the blue light appears white.
`So it's talking here about green and red,
`Dr. Bretschneider, but what does that tell you, though?
`A.
`Again, green and red make yellow, so it's white.
`Q.
`Okay.
`So let's move on to the first of the two Nichia
`patents at issue in this case, the '925 patent, and this is
`slide 40, which is a copy of Plaintiff's Exhibit 1.
`Which of the two patents, by the way,
`Dr. Bretschneider, was the first to issue, the '925 or the
`'960?
`A.
`The '925.
`Q.
`And who are the named inventors of the '925 patent?
`A.
`Yoshanori Shimizu, Kensho Sakano, Yasanogu Noguchi and
`Toshio Morguchi.
`Q.
`Is Shuji Nakamura, the inventor of the blue LED, listed as
`an inventor on the '925 patent?
`A.
`No, he's not.
`Q.
`When did the Nichia inventors first file their patent
`application at the U.S. Patent Office?
`A.
`July 29, 1997.
`Q.
`And when did the '925 patent issue?
`A.
`December 7, 1999.
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41199 Filed 04/30/15 Page 23 of 161
`
`23
`
`We just
`Let's move on to the next slide, slide 41.
`Q.
`highlighted the top left corner of the front page of the '925
`patent, and it has a title.
`Can you tell us what the title of
`the '925 patent is?
`A.
`Light-Emitting Device Having a Nitride Compound
`Semiconductor and a Phosphor Containing a Garnet Fluorescent
`Material.
`The first part of the title talks
`Q.
`Let's break that down.
`about a light-emitting device having a nitride compound
`semiconductor.
`Can you tell us what that is in a little
`simpler terms, Dr. Bretschneider?
`A.
`Basically, it's a blue gallium nitride LED.
`Q.
`And again, who invented that blue gallium nitride LED?
`A.
`Nakamura, Akasaki and Amano.
`Q.
`And then the second part of the title of the '925 patent
`is a phosphor containing a garnet fluorescent material.
`Again,
`can you tell us what they are referring to there?
`A.
`Basically, YAG.
`Q.
`So at a high level, what do you understand the '925 patent
`to be directed to?
`A.
`Using a blue LED with a yellow-emitting YAG phosphor to
`make white.
`Q.
`So let's go take a look inside the '925 patent and what it
`discloses.
`If we can go to column one, please, at the top we
`have a section called Background of the Invention.
`Do you see
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41200 Filed 04/30/15 Page 24 of 161
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`24
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`that, Dr. Bretschneider?
`A.
`Yes, I do.
`Q.
`And if we go down just a little bit further in the
`background of the invention, there is a section called,
`Description of Related Art.
`Do you see that?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`What's your understanding of what's in the section called
`Description of Related Art?
`A.
`This is where the inventors are talking about everything
`that was known at the time, and more specifically, this is all
`information that's not a part of the invention.
`This was
`everything that was done before by any individuals.
`Q.
`Put another way, they are talking about the prior art
`here; is that right?
`A.
`Prior art, yes.
`Q.
`So if we look inside this description of the related art,
`and we go to Column 1, lines 57 to 65, can we call that up,
`please?
`Thank you.
`What did the Nichia inventors say about whether
`blue LEDs were known in the prior art?
`A.
`Here they listed a number of Japanese patent applications.
`There are four Japanese patent applications there.
`And they
`are stating that these LEDs used fluorescent materials,
`phosphors, to make other colors, and they specifically say that
`they are capable of generating white light.
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41201 Filed 04/30/15 Page 25 of 161
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`So just with
`So let's take and break this down.
`Okay.
`Q.
`respect to blue LEDs, they are saying what, Dr. Bretschneider?
`A.
`They didn't invent blue LEDs.
`Q.
`And what do they say was known in the prior art about how
`blue LEDs could be used?
`A.
`That they could be used with a phosphor, and more
`specifically, used with a phosphor to make white light.
`Q.
`Okay.
`And what color phosphor would you use with the blue
`LED to make white light?
`A.
`If you want to use a single one, it has to be yellow.
`There's no choice.
`Q.
`So let's continue on in the description of the related art
`and go up to Column 2, lines 8 to 14.
`And again, what do the inventors say here about
`using blue LEDs to make white light?
`A.
`Again, here they're saying that if you have a blue LED you
`can put it in a resin, which is used with LEDs all the time,
`and that if the phosphor emits yellow light, basically, you'll
`get blue.
`Q.
`So you're looking at where -- can you just tell us,
`specifically show the jury where exactly you're referring to
`when you say resin with blue plus yellow?
`A.
`Here they're saying resin with a fluorescent material
`absorbs light emitted by the blue LED.
`Here's where they are
`talking about white.
`The phosphor emits a yellowish light.
`
`So
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`Case 4:12-cv-11758-GAD-MKM ECF No. 510, PageID.41202 Filed 04/30/15 Page 26 of 161
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`So white
`
`it's a little disjointed, but it happens in patents.
`light, and blue LED, yellowish from the phosphor.
`Q.
`Okay.
`So, let's go back to the cover page of the patent.
`If we pull up on the right-hand side the other
`publication, other publications.
`So did the inventors --
`are the inventors saying that they are the ones that invented
`YAG, Dr. Bretschneider?
`A.
`No.
`Specifically they're referring to the Blasse and
`Bril.
`It says Glasse here, but that was a typo.
`This is the
`article we talked about yesterday where YAG was invented.
`Q.
`So go back now to Column 2 of the patent, where we were.
`Further down at the bottom of Column 2 we see a
`new section that's called, Summary of the Invention.
`Do you
`see that?
`A.
`Yes, I do.
`Q.
`What's your understanding of what is in the summary of the
`invention?
`A.
`This is where the inventors have a summary or a brief
`description of what they feel th
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