Case 3:18-cv-00347-CAB-MDD Document 350-27 Filed 11/06/21 PageID.32611 Page 1 of
`16
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`EXHIBIT 26
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`DECLARATION OF TRENT D. TANNER
`IN SUPPORT OF
`NUVASIVE'S OPPOSITION TO
`DEFENDANTS' MOTIONS IN LIMINE NOS. 1-10
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`

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`Case 3:18-cv-00347-CAB-MDD Document 350-27 Filed 11/06/21 PageID.32612 Page 2 of
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`Robert Judd, CPA· Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes OnlyRobert Judd, CPA· Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
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`November 05, 2019November 05, 2019
`
`· · · · · · UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`· · · · · ·SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
`· · · · · · · · ·SAN DIEGO DIVISION
`
`NUVASIVE, INC., a Delaware
`corporation,
`· · · · · Plaintiff,
`· · · · · v.· · · · ·Case No. 3:18-CV-00347
`· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · -CAB-MDD
`ALPHATEC HOLDINGS, INC., a
`Delaware corporation and
`ALPHATEC SPINE, INC., a
`California corporation,
`· · · · · Defendants.
`_______________________________________________________
`· · ·HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - ATTORNEYS' EYES ONLY
`· · · VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF ROBERT JUDD, CPA
`· ·ALPHATEC’S HOLDINGS, INC. RULE 30(b)(6) WITNESS
`· · · · · · · · SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA
`· · · · · · · · · NOVEMBER 5, 2019
`
`Reported By:
`PATRICIA Y. SCHULER
`CSR No. 11949
`
`
`
`U.S. Legal Support | www.uslegalsupport.comU.S. Legal Support | www.uslegalsupport.com
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`·
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`EXHIBIT 26
`Page 560
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`Case 3:18-cv-00347-CAB-MDD Document 350-27 Filed 11/06/21 PageID.32613 Page 3 of
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`Robert Judd, CPA· Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes OnlyRobert Judd, CPA· Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
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`November 05, 2019November 05, 2019
`Page 2
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`Page 4
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`·1· · · · · · · ·UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`·2· · · · · · · SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
`·3· · · · · · · · · · SAN DIEGO DIVISION
`·4
`·5· ·NUVASIVE, INC., a Delaware
`· · ·corporation,
`·6
`· · · · · · · ·Plaintiff,
`·7
`· · · · · · · ·v.· · · · · · ·Case No. 3:18-CV-00347
`·8· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·-CAB-MDD
`· · ·ALPHATEC HOLDINGS, INC., a
`·9· ·Delaware corporation and
`· · ·ALPHATEC SPINE, INC., a
`10· ·California corporation,
`11· · · · · · ·Defendants.
`12· ·_______________________________________________________
`13· · · · Videotaped deposition of ROBERT JUDD, CPA taken
`14· ·on behalf of the Plaintiffs at 12235 El Camino Real,
`15· ·Suite 100, San Diego, California, at 8:59 a.m. and
`16· ·ending at 5:58 p.m., on November 5, 2019, before
`17· ·PATRICIA Y. SCHULER, Certified Shorthand Reporter
`18· ·No. 11949.
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
`24
`25
`
`·1· · · · · · · · · · · · ·I-N-D-E-X
`·2· ·WITNESS:· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·EXAMINATION
`·3· ·ROBERT JUDD, CPA· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · PAGE
`·4· ·MR. CARLSON· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · 7
`·5
`·6
`·7· · · · · · · · · · · E-X-H-I-B-I-T-S
`·8· ·PLAINTIFF'S· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`·9· ·Exhibit 1· · ·Nuvasive, Inc.'s Notice of· · · · · 24
`· · · · · · · · · ·Deposition of Alphatec Holdings,
`10· · · · · · · · ·Inc. and Alphatec Spine, Inc.
`· · · · · · · · · ·Pursuant to rule 30(B)(6)
`11
`· · ·Exhibit 2· · ·LinkedIn Information for R. Judd,· ·28
`12· · · · · · · · ·CPA
`13· ·Exhibit 6· · ·Excel spreadsheet Bates stamped· · 144
`· · · · · · · · · ·ATEC_LLIF000854415
`14
`· · ·Exhibit 8· · ·Thumb drive with Excel· · · · · · ·144
`15· · · · · · · · ·spreadsheets
`16· ·Exhibit 7· · ·Excel spreadsheet Bates stamped· · 187
`· · · · · · · · · ·ATEC_LLIF000854525
`17
`· · ·Exhibit 9· · ·Listing of all agreements· · · · · 213
`18· · · · · · · · ·involving Alphatec
`19· ·Exhibit 10· · Alphatec Spine, Inc. Journal· · · ·217
`· · · · · · · · · ·Entry Form, Bates stamped
`20· · · · · · · · ·ATEC_LLIF000465519 through 465532
`21· ·Exhibit 11· · Nonexclusive Patent License· · · · 222
`· · · · · · · · · ·Agreement, Bates stamped
`22· · · · · · · · ·ATEC_LLIF000262386 through 262404
`23· ·Exhibit 3· · ·Excel spreadsheet Bates stamped· · 224
`· · · · · · · · · ·ATEC_LLIF000004858
`24
`25
`
`·1· ·APPEARANCES:
`·2· ·FOR PLAINTIFF:
`·3· · · · · · ·WILSON SONSINI GOODRICH & ROSATI, P.C.
`·4· · · · · · ·BY:· ERIK J. CARLSON, ESQ.
`·5· · · · · · ·BY:· NATALIE MORGAN, ESQ.
`·6· · · · · · ·633 West Fifth Street, Suite 1550
`·7· · · · · · ·Los Angeles, California· 90071
`·8· · · · · · ·ecarlson@wsgr.com
`·9· ·FOR DEFENDANTS:
`10· · · · · · ·WINSTON STRAWN LLP
`11· · · · · · ·BY:· BRIAN J. NISBET, ESQ.
`12· · · · · · ·35 West Wacker Drive, Suite 4100
`13· · · · · · ·Chicago, Illinois 60601-9703
`14· · · · · · ·bnisbet@winston.com
`15· · · · · · ·- and -
`16· · · · · · ·WINSTON STRAWN LLP
`17· · · · · · ·BY:· NIMALKA R. WICKRAMASEKERA, ESQ.
`18· · · · · · ·333 South Grand Avenue, Suite 3800
`19· · · · · · ·Los Angeles, California 90071-1543
`20· · · · · · ·nwickramasekera@winston.com
`21· ·Also Present:
`22· · · · · · ·Blake Inglish, (Telephonic)
`· · · · · · · ·Ryan Mehner (Telephonic)
`23· · · · · · ·Tyson Marshall
`24· ·Videographer:
`25· · · · · · ·Ty Paulson
`
`Page 3
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`Page 5
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`·1· · · · · · · · E-X-H-I-B-I-T-S (CONTINUED)
`·2· ·PLAINTIFF'S· · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · · ·PAGE
`·3· ·Exhibit 4· · ·Excel spreadsheet Bates stamped· · 224
`· · · · · · · · · ·ATEC_LLIF000004861
`·4
`· · ·Exhibit 12· · Exclusive License Agreement,· · · ·233
`·5· · · · · · · · ·Bates stamped ATEC_LLIF000854416
`· · · · · · · · · ·through 854435
`·6
`· · ·Exhibit 13· · Private Label Distribution· · · · ·239
`·7· · · · · · · · ·Agreement, Bates stamped
`· · · · · · · · · ·ATEC_LLIF000854660 through 854683
`·8
`· · ·Exhibit 14· · Document entitled "Product Line· · 253
`·9· · · · · · · · ·Planning/Input (Phase 1 of 2)"
`· · · · · · · · · ·Bates stamped ATEC_LLIF0000002410
`10· · · · · · · · ·through 2443
`11· ·Exhibit 5· · ·Excel spreadsheet Bates stamped· · 267
`· · · · · · · · · ·ATEC_LLIF000147937
`12
`13
`14
`15
`16
`17
`18
`19
`20
`21
`22
`23
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`25
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`Case 3:18-cv-00347-CAB-MDD Document 350-27 Filed 11/06/21 PageID.32614 Page 4 of
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`Robert Judd, CPA· Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes OnlyRobert Judd, CPA· Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
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`November 05, 2019November 05, 2019
`Page 6
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`·1· · ·SAN DIEGO, CALIFORNIA; TUESDAY, NOVEMBER 5, 2019
`·2· · · · · · · · · · · · ·8:59 a.m.
`·3· · · · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· Good morning.· We are
`·4· ·on the record at 8:59 a.m. on November 5, 2019.
`·5· ·Audio and video recording will continue to take
`·6· ·place until all parties agree to go off the record.
`·7· ·Please note that the microphones are sensitive and
`·8· ·may pick up whispering and private conversations.
`·9· · · · · · ·This is the video-recorded deposition of
`10· ·Robert Judd, taken by counsel for plaintiff in the
`11· ·matter of Nuvasive, Inc., versus Alphatec Holdings,
`12· ·Inc., filed in the United States District Court,
`13· ·San Diego Division.
`14· · · · · · ·This deposition is taking place at
`15· ·Wilson, Sonsini, Goodrich & Rosati, located at
`16· ·12235 El Camino Real, in San Diego, California
`17· ·92130.
`18· · · · · · ·My name is Ty Paulson.· I am the
`19· ·videographer on behalf of U.S. Legal Support,
`20· ·located at 1230 Columbia Street, Suite 400, in
`21· ·San Diego, California 92101.
`22· · · · · · ·The court reporter is Patricia Schuler,
`23· ·on behalf of U.S. Legal Support.· I am not
`24· ·financially interested this action, nor a party to
`25· ·this action.
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`Page 8
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`·1· ·Judd.· R-O-B-E-R-T; Jared, J-A-R-E-D; Judd,
`·2· ·J-U-D-D.
`·3· · · · Q.· ·Have you ever been deposed before?
`·4· · · · A.· ·I have not.
`·5· · · · Q.· ·Okay.· So first I'll go over some ground
`·6· ·rules just about the mechanics of taking a
`·7· ·deposition and getting it transcribed and recorded.
`·8· · · · · · ·You understand you are testifying under
`·9· ·oath?
`10· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`11· · · · Q.· ·And the court reporter sitting here is
`12· ·going to be taking down everything you say and
`13· ·transcribing what is said.· So in order to
`14· ·facilitate that process I ask that if I ask a
`15· ·question, you provide a verbal response, yes or no,
`16· ·so that she can get that down.
`17· · · · · · ·Does that make sense?
`18· · · · A.· ·Yeah.· Yeah.
`19· · · · Q.· ·And I'll do my best to ask a question and
`20· ·stop to wait for you to give an answer.· And I'd
`21· ·ask that we try not to talk over each other.· And I
`22· ·know it gets to be a little difficult, but we
`23· ·should both try our best because it messes up the
`24· ·transcript, okay?
`25· · · · A.· ·Absolutely.
`
`Page 7
`·1· · · · · · ·Counsel will state their appearances for
`·2· ·the record, after which the court reporter will
`·3· ·swear in the witness.
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. CARLSON:· Erik Carlson from Wilson,
`·5· ·Sonsini, Goodrich & Rosati appearing for plaintiff
`·6· ·Nuvasive, Inc.· And with me is colleague Natalie
`·7· ·Morgan.· On the line we have our damages expert
`·8· ·Blake English along with his necessary support
`·9· ·personnel Ryan Mainer.
`10· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· My name is Brian Nisbet with
`11· ·Winston and Strawn on behalf of the defendant
`12· ·Alphatec entities.· With me is Tyson Marshall,
`13· ·counsel at Alphatec.
`14
`15· · · · · · · · · · ROBERT JUDD, CPA,
`16· · having been administered an oath, was examined and
`17· · · · · · · · · ·testified as follows:
`18
`19· · · · · · · · · · · · EXAMINATION
`20· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`21· · · · Q.· ·Good morning, Mr. Judd.
`22· · · · A.· ·Good morning.
`23· · · · Q.· ·Could you state and spell your name for
`24· ·the record, please.
`25· · · · A.· ·Yeah.· Robert -- full name Robert Jared
`
`Page 9
`·1· · · · Q.· ·The one thing I ask is that if I have a
`·2· ·question pending, that you answer the question
`·3· ·before you need to take a break.
`·4· · · · A.· ·Okay.
`·5· · · · Q.· ·So in other words, let me take a step
`·6· ·back.· If you need a break at any time just let me
`·7· ·know.· The only time I would ask that we wait to
`·8· ·take a break is if there is a question pending and
`·9· ·you need to give an answer.
`10· · · · A.· ·Okay.
`11· · · · Q.· ·If you don't understand a question,
`12· ·please just ask me for clarification.· And if you
`13· ·do answer, I'll take that as an indication that you
`14· ·understood the question, okay?
`15· · · · A.· ·Okay.
`16· · · · Q.· ·And then one other thing.· Your lawyer
`17· ·may make an objection to the question I ask.· And
`18· ·unless there is an instruction not to answer, I'm
`19· ·entitled to an answer, so you still need to answer
`20· ·after the objection.
`21· · · · A.· ·Okay.
`22· · · · Q.· ·Is there anything that would impact or
`23· ·interfere with your ability to testify truthfully
`24· ·today?
`25· · · · A.· ·No.
`
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`Case 3:18-cv-00347-CAB-MDD Document 350-27 Filed 11/06/21 PageID.32615 Page 5 of
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`Robert Judd, CPA· Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes OnlyRobert Judd, CPA· Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
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`November 05, 2019November 05, 2019
`Page 38
`·1· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Why don't we go off the
`·2· ·record for a minute.
`·3· · · · · · ·MR. CARLSON:· So you're instructing him
`·4· ·not to answer, and there's a question pending, and
`·5· ·we're going to go off the record?· Counsel, I think
`·6· ·that seems improper.
`·7· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· We can do it all here.
`·8· ·That's fine.· I don't see the reason why you're
`·9· ·asking him questions about who recruited him to
`10· ·Alphatec.· He's a 30(b)6 witness.· You could have
`11· ·served him a 30(b)1 deposition notice, you didn't.
`12· · · · · · ·MR. CARLSON:· We didn't need to.
`13· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`14· · · · Q.· ·Which Alphatec executive officer or
`15· ·employee actually offered you the job?
`16· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`17· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· So the person that offered
`18· ·me the job -- and actually by the way, when they
`19· ·offered me the job, I told them this is not about
`20· ·money for me -- was Jeff Black, the CFO.
`21· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`22· · · · Q.· ·Did he interview you for your position at
`23· ·Alphatec also?
`24· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`25· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I don't understand your
`
`Page 40
`·1· · · · A.· ·You're telling me there are seven, I
`·2· ·don't know.
`·3· · · · Q.· ·Have you reviewed any patents in
`·4· ·preparation for your deposition today?
`·5· · · · A.· ·I did not review any patents.
`·6· · · · Q.· ·Do you know anything about the nature of
`·7· ·the patents that are asserted in this case?
`·8· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· I object to the form of the
`·9· ·question, instruct you not to answer to the extent
`10· ·you have any sort of understanding that you gained
`11· ·from counsel.· If you have an independent
`12· ·understanding --
`13· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· No, I don't.
`14· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· -- you can answer.
`15· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`16· · · · Q.· ·You haven't read anything online about
`17· ·the case that identified what the patents generally
`18· ·relate to?
`19· · · · A.· ·No.· No.
`20· · · · Q.· ·Do you have an understanding of the
`21· ·accused products that are at issue in the case?
`22· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· I would just reiterate my
`23· ·objection to the extent that you gained any
`24· ·understanding from counsel on that, exclude that
`25· ·from your answer.
`
`Page 39
`·1· ·question.· Did Jeff Black interview for a job at
`·2· ·Nuvasive?· Sorry.
`·3· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`·4· · · · Q.· ·Was he the one who interviewed you before
`·5· ·you got your offer to join Alphatec?
`·6· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`·7· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Did he interview me for the
`·8· ·job at Alphatec?
`·9· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`10· · · · Q.· ·Right.· Did you have to go through an
`11· ·interview as part of getting your job at Alphatec?
`12· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`13· · · · Q.· ·And was he the one involved in that
`14· ·interview?
`15· · · · A.· ·He was, yes.
`16· · · · Q.· ·Did you get a signing bonus when you
`17· ·joined Alphatec?
`18· · · · A.· ·I did not.
`19· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`20· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`21· · · · Q.· ·Do you know what patents are asserted in
`22· ·this case?
`23· · · · A.· ·I don't know all of the patents.
`24· · · · Q.· ·Do you understand that there are seven
`25· ·patents asserted?
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`Page 41
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`·1· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· What do you mean by
`·2· ·understanding?
`·3· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`·4· · · · Q.· ·Let me ask a different question.
`·5· · · · · · ·You understand that this is a patent
`·6· ·case, right?
`·7· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`·8· · · · Q.· ·And Nuvasive is asserting patents against
`·9· ·Alphatec, right?
`10· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`11· · · · Q.· ·And I will represent to you there are
`12· ·seven patents asserted.
`13· · · · A.· ·Okay.
`14· · · · Q.· ·And in the case, Nuvasive has accused
`15· ·products made by Alphatec of infringing those seven
`16· ·patents.
`17· · · · A.· ·Makes sense.
`18· · · · Q.· ·Do you have an understanding of what
`19· ·those products that are accused of infringement
`20· ·are, the Alphatec products?
`21· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· And I will reiterate my
`22· ·objection.
`23· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I know what products are
`24· ·included in the data we've provided to you. I
`25· ·guess that's the best way I know how to answer that
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`Case 3:18-cv-00347-CAB-MDD Document 350-27 Filed 11/06/21 PageID.32616 Page 6 of
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`Robert Judd, CPA· Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes OnlyRobert Judd, CPA· Highly Confidential - Attorneys' Eyes Only
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`November 05, 2019November 05, 2019
`Page 42
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`·1· ·question.
`·2· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`·3· · · · Q.· ·And what products are included in the
`·4· ·data that you provided to us?
`·5· · · · A.· ·Yeah, it's the Battalion lateral and
`·6· ·interbody spacers.· There is also light cable for
`·7· ·the retractor, various neuromonitoring products are
`·8· ·in the sales data as well.
`·9· · · · Q.· ·So I have the Battalion lateral interbody
`10· ·spacer, the light cable, and various
`11· ·neuromonitoring products?
`12· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
`13· · · · Q.· ·Anything else?
`14· · · · A.· ·If we pulled up a document, we might find
`15· ·something else in there, but nothing that I can
`16· ·recall.
`17· · · · Q.· ·We were discussing before the topics that
`18· ·you were designated to testify regarding, right?
`19· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`20· · · · Q.· ·And one of those topics you remember was
`21· ·No. 9?
`22· · · · A.· ·Yup.
`23· · · · Q.· ·And No. 9 reads, "Any Alphatec products
`24· ·intended to be used in conjunction with, sold with,
`25· ·or packaged with the accused products."
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`Page 44
`·1· ·on.
`·2· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Again, I would ask you to
`·3· ·clarify what you mean by "understanding."
`·4· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`·5· · · · Q.· ·You understand that you're the
`·6· ·spokesperson for Alphatec on Topic 9, right?
`·7· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`·8· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· You have told me that a
`·9· ·couple of times now, yes.
`10· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`11· · · · Q.· ·And you agreed to be the spokesperson,
`12· ·right?
`13· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`14· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I know I am here to talk to
`15· ·you about Topic No. 9.
`16· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`17· · · · Q.· ·And in order to prepare to be the
`18· ·spokesperson for Alphatec on Topic 9 --
`19· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
`20· · · · Q.· ·-- what did you use as an understanding
`21· ·for accused products to prepare?
`22· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`23· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I guess I'm still not clear
`24· ·on what you mean by "understanding."· I mean, I
`25· ·feel like maybe we're disconnected on what
`
`Page 43
`·1· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
`·2· · · · Q.· ·What did you do to prepare to testify in
`·3· ·response to this topic?
`·4· · · · A.· ·So again, looked at the sales data in the
`·5· ·sales cube.· I guess to clarify, the sales cube has
`·6· ·a lot of information in it, so there's other
`·7· ·information in that database that would tell, you
`·8· ·know, what -- I mean, to this point you can look at
`·9· ·a case or an order and see what products are used
`10· ·in those cases.· So looking through that database
`11· ·and then, again, as I mentioned, talking to Mike to
`12· ·make sure I understood what those products were,
`13· ·because I -- there's a lot -- the detail at which
`14· ·those are represented in that sales cube is not
`15· ·always at the level of detail which I look at that
`16· ·stuff in my day-to-day basis.
`17· · · · Q.· ·So Topic 9, refers to the accused
`18· ·products, right?
`19· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
`20· · · · Q.· ·How did you prepare to testify if you
`21· ·didn't have an understanding of accused products?
`22· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.· He's
`23· ·here to -- he's prepared to testify subject to our
`24· ·responses and objections, which I think clarifies
`25· ·the scope of the products he's prepared to testify
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`·1· ·understanding means.
`·2· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`·3· · · · Q.· ·Let me try again.· Try a different angle.
`·4· · · · · · ·Topic 9 describes some information that
`·5· ·Nuvasive is interested in learning about in this
`·6· ·deposition, right?
`·7· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
`·8· · · · Q.· ·And I'll represent to you that when
`·9· ·you're designated as a 30(b)6 witness, you're a
`10· ·company spokesperson, which we have discussed on
`11· ·that topic?
`12· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
`13· · · · Q.· ·So how are we -- how are you prepared to
`14· ·give us information about Topic 9 if you don't have
`15· ·an understanding of what the accused products are?
`16· · · · A.· ·Well --
`17· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`18· ·Mischaracterizes his testimony.
`19· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Yeah, I guess I would
`20· ·disagree with your statement that I don't have an
`21· ·understanding.· I guess I'm trying to understand
`22· ·what you mean by that.· Do I understand what the
`23· ·products are?· I understand these are the accused
`24· ·products.· So I guess I'm not sure what -- maybe
`25· ·not answering your question, but I don't understand
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`·1· ·what the question is.
`·2· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`·3· · · · Q.· ·When preparing to testify in response to
`·4· ·Topic 9, did you consider the Alphatec LLIF
`·5· ·Squadron retractor to be an accused product?
`·6· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`·7· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Do you have a copy of our
`·8· ·responses and rejections.· Maybe this will
`·9· ·short-circuit --
`10· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`11· · · · Q.· ·I just have it in my notes.
`12· · · · A.· ·Okay.
`13· · · · Q.· ·Which is what I am reading from, your
`14· ·responses.
`15· · · · A.· ·Yeah, I think I had a list presented to
`16· ·me that named the accused products.· And believe
`17· ·the retractor was on that list.
`18· · · · Q.· ·That's Alphatec LLIF Squadron retractor?
`19· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`20· · · · Q.· ·And the dilator was on that list too?
`21· · · · A.· ·I believe the dilator is on there as
`22· ·well.
`23· · · · Q.· ·And the K-wire?
`24· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
`25· · · · Q.· ·And the intradiscal shim?
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`·1· · · · Q.· ·And you said you talked to Mike?
`·2· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
`·3· · · · Q.· ·And we previously discussed that, right?
`·4· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`·5· · · · Q.· ·What information regarding those products
`·6· ·that I just listed as the accused products did Mike
`·7· ·provide?
`·8· · · · A.· ·So in some of our sales data there's also
`·9· ·some other products that aren't actually on the
`10· ·accused products list.· Some of those are, well,
`11· ·what I mentioned earlier, neuromonitoring products.
`12· ·So I'm trying to understand what products were and
`13· ·weren't neuromonitoring, and so that was part of
`14· ·the discussion.· And then also a question like on
`15· ·the shim, making sure I understood exactly how the
`16· ·shim is used in the surgery.
`17· · · · Q.· ·So sticking on the first thing you
`18· ·mentioned that you discussed with Mike, that was an
`19· ·explanation of what were or were not
`20· ·neuromonitoring products or related products?
`21· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`22· · · · Q.· ·And what testimony or information do you
`23· ·have about what those neuromonitoring products are?
`24· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`25· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Sorry.· Do I understand --
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`·1· · · · A.· ·Yes, that sounds right.
`·2· · · · Q.· ·And shim inserter tool?
`·3· · · · A.· ·Um-hmm.
`·4· · · · Q.· ·And the Battalion lateral spacer?
`·5· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`·6· · · · Q.· ·The fourth blade?
`·7· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`·8· · · · Q.· ·And the light cable/light source
`·9· ·connector.
`10· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
`11· · · · · · ·Sorry.· You just wanted me to name those,
`12· ·that's all you wanted me to do?
`13· · · · Q.· ·Yeah.
`14· · · · A.· ·Sorry.· I thought you were getting at
`15· ·some other understanding of those products, like --
`16· ·sorry.
`17· · · · Q.· ·It's okay.· Due to the formality of this
`18· ·deposition, sometimes you get tripped up on things
`19· ·that we shouldn't?
`20· · · · A.· ·Yeah, I definitely -- I know those
`21· ·products.· I know their names.· I am clear those
`22· ·were the accused products, yes.
`23· · · · Q.· ·I think we were talking about what you
`24· ·did to prepare for this topic, right?
`25· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
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`·1· ·sorry.· Can you say that one more time?
`·2· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`·3· · · · Q.· ·Sure.· What testimony or information do
`·4· ·you have about what neuromonitoring products are
`·5· ·included in the sales cube that you reviewed?
`·6· · · · A.· ·Yeah, I mean, if we were to pull it up
`·7· ·and look at it, I'm prepared to tell you what
`·8· ·products are neuromonitoring and which aren't and
`·9· ·do my best to articulate what those products do.
`10· · · · Q.· ·Just generally, when you're preferring to
`11· ·neuromonitoring products, are you referring to the
`12· ·neuromonitor or something else?
`13· · · · A.· ·Fair question.· I'm referring to the
`14· ·products that are disposables and are used with
`15· ·neuromonitoring.· You know, so not the
`16· ·neuromonitoring equipment per se, but typically the
`17· ·disposables that are used during surgery and billed
`18· ·for.
`19· · · · Q.· ·And do you have just an example?· We'll
`20· ·get to the sales cube in a little bit, but do you
`21· ·have just an example of a disposable that is used
`22· ·with a neuromonitor?
`23· · · · A.· ·Yeah.· So a couple are, you have a clip,
`24· ·clips onto the -- the dilator when you're trying to
`25· ·get down into the surgery site.· You have a probe
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`·1· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I would say, "No."· I mean.
`·2· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`·3· · · · Q.· ·Why not?
`·4· · · · A.· ·Well, because I don't know -- it's not --
`·5· ·surgeons have all kinds of different practices and
`·6· ·uses, and again, if you ask me, is there a
`·7· ·likelihood that a Squadron -- is it possible?· Oh,
`·8· ·yeah, it's possible, and probably more than
`·9· ·50 percent of the time I would guess, but I'm just
`10· ·guessing.· Like you're asking me, looking at the
`11· ·information in the sales cube, can I say that that
`12· ·implant was sold therefore our Squadron retractor
`13· ·was used?· And, no, I can't make that connection.
`14· ·Is there a possibility or even a likelihood?
`15· ·Potentially, but I'm speculating because I don't
`16· ·know.
`17· · · · Q.· ·So are you aware that the Alphatec LLIF
`18· ·implant is designed specifically to work with the
`19· ·Alphatec Squadron retractor?
`20· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`21· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· That's not something that I
`22· ·know to be the case.
`23· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`24· · · · Q.· ·You disagree with that?
`25· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
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`·1· ·sales cube spreadsheet that would indicate a
`·2· ·Squadron retractor was not used when an Alphatec
`·3· ·LLIF implant was used?
`·4· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection; to form.
`·5· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· There's nothing in the data
`·6· ·that would tell me that one wasn't used either.
`·7· ·Just like there is nothing that would tell me it is
`·8· ·used.
`·9· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Is this maybe a good time to
`10· ·break?· Are you done with that topic?
`11· · · · · · ·MR. CARLSON:· I was about to move on, so
`12· ·it's a perfect time.
`13· · · · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We are off the record
`14· ·at 10:18 a.m.
`15· · · · · · ·(Recess taken.)
`16· · · · · · ·THE VIDEOGRAPHER:· We're back on the
`17· ·record at 10:29 a.m.
`18· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`19· · · · Q.· ·Good morning again, Mr. Malone.· You
`20· ·understand you're still under oath?
`21· · · · A.· ·Yes.
`22· · · · Q.· ·Sorry.· Not Mr. Malone.· Mr. Judd.· We
`23· ·are scheduling a lot of depositions.· It's hard to
`24· ·keep everyone straight.· I'm sorry, Mr. Judd.
`25· · · · A.· ·I am not Mr. Malone.· But yes, I do
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`·1· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I'm not a clinical expert.
`·2· ·I don't know what you do with an implant to make it
`·3· ·specifically for use with a retractor.
`·4· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`·5· · · · Q.· ·Right.· So if an Alphatec LLIF implant is
`·6· ·sold, you don't know one way or another whether
`·7· ·that implant could work with a retractor other than
`·8· ·the squadron?
`·9· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`10· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· Again, based on my
`11· ·understanding just to use your example of a --
`12· ·we're talking about an Alphatec Battalion lateral
`13· ·spacer that gets used.· Is there a possibility that
`14· ·a Medtronic retractor was used with the surgery, or
`15· ·that a Nuvasive retractor was used or that a DuPuy
`16· ·retractor was used?· I mean, that's a possibility.
`17· ·Retractors, again, from my understanding, is just
`18· ·making an access pathway.· These spacers are all
`19· ·kind of the same size, so I don't know that a
`20· ·retractor is designed to be used with -- again, I
`21· ·feel like I'm on the edge of my clinical knowledge,
`22· ·but I don't know that I connect the two in that
`23· ·way.· It's not a closed system I guess.
`24· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`25· · · · Q.· ·Is there anything in the data in the
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`·1· ·understand I am still under oath.
`·2· · · · Q.· ·So right before the break, we were
`·3· ·talking about some of the components that Alphatec
`·4· ·sells or provides for a lateral procedure, right?
`·5· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
`·6· · · · Q.· ·One of the components we were discussing
`·7· ·was the shim that Alphatec sells for a lateral
`·8· ·procedure.
`·9· · · · A.· ·Yeah.
`10· · · · Q.· ·Is that shim specifically designed to be
`11· ·used with Alphatec's Squadron retractor?
`12· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`13· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I don't know the answer to
`14· ·that.
`15· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`16· · · · Q.· ·Do you have any knowledge or information
`17· ·of Alphatec's shim being used with another
`18· ·retractor?
`19· · · · A.· ·I don't.
`20· · · · Q.· ·Now, the light cable that Alphatec sells
`21· ·for a lateral procedure, is that light cable
`22· ·designed specifically to be used with an Alphatec
`23· ·Squadron retractor?
`24· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`25· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· My understanding is that it
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`·1· ·is designed to fit with the Alphatec retractor.
`·2· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`·3· · · · Q.· ·Are you aware of any other retractor that
`·4· ·is designed to work with Alphatec's light cable?
`·5· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
`·6· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I am not aware of anyone
`·7· ·else that is designing a retractor to work -- or
`·8· ·has designed a retractor to work with our light
`·9· ·cable.· But I don't know whether it is or is not
`10· ·compatible with anyone else's.
`11· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`12· · · · Q.· ·Alphatec does not intend that a retractor
`13· ·other than the Squadron be used with its LLIF
`14· ·implant, right?
`15· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.· It's
`16· ·outside the scope.
`17· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· I don't know that I can
`18· ·answer that question.
`19· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`20· · · · Q.· ·You have no information of knowledge of
`21· ·Alphatec's intent -- strike that.
`22· · · · · · ·Do you have any knowledge or information
`23· ·as to whether Alphatec intends its LLIF implants to
`24· ·be used with a retractor other than the Alphatec's
`25· ·Squadron retractor?
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`·1· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`·2· · · · Q.· ·Is the K-wire -- sorry.· Strike that.
`·3· · · · · · ·What Alphatec products are sold with
`·4· ·Alphatec's K-wire?
`·5· · · · A.· ·I think when you see -- I mean, I think a
`·6· ·K-wire is probably similar to some of the other
`·7· ·products we discussed early.· I mean, you see a
`·8· ·K-wire -- and just to clarify, I suppose we are
`·9· ·talking about the K-wires.· They're specifically
`10· ·for lateral -- designed for lateral use.· Because,
`11· ·I mean, there's K-wires used in all kinds of
`12· ·different procedures, right?
`13· · · · Q.· ·Yes.· Thank you for that clarification.
`14· ·I will re-ask the question.
`15· · · · · · ·Is Alphatec's K-wire that is sold for a
`16· ·lateral procedure sold with any other Alphatec
`17· ·products?
`18· · · · A.· ·Yeah.· I often see that K-wire sold with
`19· ·the dilators.· You know, you see -- you do see --
`20· ·again, see the light cables often, the shims, the
`21· ·spacers in cases where there is a -- cases or
`22· ·surgeries where there is a K-wire.
`23· · · · Q.· ·Is Alphatec's K-wire for a lateral
`24· ·procedure packaged with other Alphatec products?
`25· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.
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`·1· · · · · · ·MR. NISBET:· Objection to form.· Outside
`·2· ·the scope.
`·3· · · · · · ·THE WITNESS:· What I can tell you is that
`·4· ·my understanding of what we are doing at Alphatec
`·5· ·is we are trying to -- trying to make products that
`·6· ·will work for a lateral procedure.
`·7· · · · · · ·There are many elements of a lateral
`·8· ·procedure, one being, like we started out
`·9· ·discussing, access.· Of course you need a cage to
`10· ·put into space, the vertebrae.
`11· ·BY MR. CARLSON:
`12· · · · Q.· ·Alphatec sells a K-wire for use in a
`13· ·lateral procedure, right?
`14· · · · A.· ·That is my understanding, yes.
`15· · · · Q.· ·What products are intended to be used in
`16· ·conjunction with Alphatec's