Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 138-16 Filed 03/18/22 Page 1 of 290
`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 138-16 Filed 03/18/22 Page 1 of 290
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`EXHIBIT 13
`EXHIBIT 13
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 138-16 Filed 03/18/22 Page 1 of 290
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`EXHIBIT 13
`EXHIBIT 13
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`1 IN THE UNITED STATES PATENT AND TRADEMARK OFFICE
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`Page 1
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`2 BEFORE THE PATENT TRIAL AND APPEAL BOARD
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`3 4
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`APPLIED MATERIALS, INC., ) Case IPR2021-00103
` ) U.S. Patent No.
`5 Petitioner, ) 7,544,276
` )
`6 vs. )
` ) Case IPR2021-00104
`7
`DEMARAY LLC, ) U.S. Patent No.
` ) 7,381,657
`8 Patent Owner. )
` _______________________________)
`9
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`10
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`11
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`12
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`13
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`14 REMOTE VIDEO DEPOSITION OF
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`15 ALEXANDER GLEW, PH.D.
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`16 Monday, November 15, 2021
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`21 Reported by:
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`22 LISA MOSKOWITZ, CA CSR 10816, RPR, CRR, CLR,
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`23 Washington CSR 21001437, Nevada CCR 991,
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`24 NCRA Realtime Systems Administrator
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`25 JOB NO. 202669
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`APPLIED MATERIALS EXHIBIT 1106
`Applied Materials Inc. v. Demaray LLC
`IPR2021-00103
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`Page 2
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` November 15, 2021
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`1 2 3 4 5
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`6 9:09 a.m.
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` Remote Video deposition of ALEXANDER
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`GLEW, PH.D., taken on behalf of Petitioner,
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`reported stenographically by Lisa Moskowitz,
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`California CSR 10816, Nevada CCR 991, Washington
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`CSR 21001437, Certified Realtime Reporter, RPR,
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`CLR, NCRA Realtime Systems Administrator.
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`A P P E A R A N C E S:
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`For the Petitioner:
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`1
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`2 3
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`4 PAUL HASTINGS LLP
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`5 2050 M Street
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`6 Washington, DC 20036
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`7 BY: JOSEPH PALYS, ESQ.
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`8 BY: HOWARD HERR, ESQ.
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`9 BY: JOSEPH RUMPLER III, ESQ.
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`10
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`11
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`For the Patent Owner:
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`12 IRELL & MANELLA LLP
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`13 1800 Avenue of the Stars
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`14 Los Angeles, California 90067
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`15 BY: DARISH HUYNH, ESQ.
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`16 BY: HONG ZHONG, ESQ.
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`1 --------------- I N D E X ------------------
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`2
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`WITNESS: EXAMINATION PAGE
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`3 Alexander Glew, Ph.D.
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`4 Mr. Palys 7, 269
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`5 Mr. Huynh 261
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`Page 4
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` -------------- E X H I B I T S -------------
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`NUMBER PAGE
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`Exhibit 1090 Pinnacle Plus 10kW User 173
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`6 7 8 9
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`10
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`11
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`12 Manual
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`Exhibit 1091 Diagram 226
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`Exhibit 1092 Diagram 229
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`13
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`14
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`15
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`16
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`17
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`18 ------------ EXHIBITS REFERENCED -----------
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`19
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`20
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`NUMBER PAGE
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`Exhibit 2009 Declaration for the 15
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`21 '276 patent
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`1 MONDAY, NOVEMBER 15, 2021
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`2 9:09 A.M.
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` THE CERTIFIED STENOGRAPHER: Good
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`morning. We are now on the record. My
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`name is Lisa Moskowitz. I am a
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`California certified stenographic
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`reporter appearing in association with
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`TSG Reporting, Inc. My CSR license
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`3 4
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`5
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`6
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`7
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`8
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`9
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`10
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`number is 10816.
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`11 I will be reporting this deposition
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`12
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`13
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`14
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`15
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`and swearing in the witness remotely.
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`Today's date is Monday,
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`November 15, 2021, and the time is
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`approximately 9:09 a.m.
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`16 Will counsel please identify
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`17
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`18
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`yourselves and state whom you represent
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`starting with the noticing attorney.
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`19 MR. PALYS: Good morning, everyone.
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`20
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`21
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`22
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`23
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`24
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`This is Joseph Palys with Paul Hastings,
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`representing the petitioner in this
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`matter. And joining me today, I
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`believe, is Howard Herr and Joseph
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`Rumpler.
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`25 MR. HUYNH: Hi everyone. I'm
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`1 Darish Huynh of Irell & Manella, LLP,
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`2 representing patent owner. With me is
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`3 my colleague Annita Zhong.
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`4 Just some housekeeping stuff I
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`5 wanted to read into the record. I
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`6 understand there's no videographer
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`7 present. Patent owner does not consent
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`8 to the use or recording of any video in
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`9 any proceeding.
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`10 Also, I understand that
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`11 cross-examination will take place over
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`12 two days and will apply to both
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`13 proceedings. Any redirect of patent
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`14 owner will occur at the end of
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`15 cross-examination. That's it.
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`16 THE CERTIFIED STENOGRAPHER: Since
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`17 we are doing this remotely, I ask that
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`18 you all speak slowly and one at a time
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`19 so that I am able to understand everyone
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`20 and that we avoid any audio glitches or
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`21 dropped testimony from talking at the
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`22 same time.
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`23 I will now swear in the witness.
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`24
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`25
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`///
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`///
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`1 ALEXANDER GLEW, PH.D.,
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`2 called as a witness,
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`3 was examined and testified as follows:
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` EXAMINATION
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`BY MR. PALYS:
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`4 5
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`6
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`7 Q.
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`Okay. We're ready to go. Good
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`8
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`9
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`morning, Dr. Glew. Can you please state
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`your name for the record?
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`10 A.
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`Alexander David Glew.
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`11 Q.
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`And where do you live, Dr. Glew?
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`12 A.
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`I live in Los Altos, California.
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`13 Q.
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`Where are you located right now?
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`14 A.
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`I am in my office in Mountain View,
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`15
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`California.
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`16 Q.
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`Who is your current employer?
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`17 A.
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`I work at Glew Engineering
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`18
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`Consulting, an engineering firm that I run.
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`19 Q.
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`And that's the location you're at
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`20
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`right now; correct?
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`21 A.
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`Yes.
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`22 Q.
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`And you understand you're
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`23
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`testifying under oath today?
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`24 A.
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`25 Q.
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`Yes, I'm under oath.
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`Okay. You understand you're here
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`1
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`2
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`3
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`4
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`5
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`6
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`to testify to your opinions provided in two
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`declarations submitted in -- I'm going to
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`give you the IPR numbers. IPR2021-00103 and
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`IPR2021-00104. Those are concerning U.S.
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`Patent Numbers 7,544,276 and 7,381,657
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`respectively.
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`7 Do you understand that?
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`8 A.
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`That sounds correct, yes.
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`9 Q.
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`Okay. That's good.
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`10 So as I'm sure you're used to,
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`11
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`12
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`13
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`14
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`let's refer to the patents by their short
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`numbers. So I'm going to refer to U.S.
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`7,544,276 as the '276 patent. Is that okay
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`with you today?
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`15 A.
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`That is fine, yes.
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`16 Q.
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`And the same for the next patent,
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`17
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`18
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`U.S. Patent 7,381,657. I'll refer to that
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`as the '657 patent. Okay?
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`19 A.
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`Yes.
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`20 Q.
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`Is there anything preventing you
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`21
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`22
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`from providing complete, accurate, and
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`truthful testimony today, sir?
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`23 A.
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`Not that I'm aware of, no.
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`24 Q.
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`Thank you. And since obviously
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`this deposition is taking place remotely, I
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`25
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`1
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`2
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`have to ask whether there is anyone in the
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`Page 9
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`room with you right now?
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`3 A.
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`No. I'm in my office by myself.
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`4 Q.
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`Okay. And is any of your counsel
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`5
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`6
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`7
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`in the same building as you for this
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`proceeding -- your counsel for this
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`proceeding?
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`8 A.
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`No, they are not.
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`9 Q.
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`Do you have any other software
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`10
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`11
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`12
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`applications open on your computer? I know
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`obviously you have WebEx open, but do you
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`have email or anything like that open?
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`13 A.
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`I have a web browser open.
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`14 Q.
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`I would ask if you could shut all
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`15
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`16
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`that down during this deposition, please.
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`Thanks.
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`17 Do you have your cell phone or any
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`18
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`smart devices with you?
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`19 A.
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`Yes, I do.
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`20 Q.
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`Okay. Are they off?
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`21 A.
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`No.
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`22 Q.
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`Can you still receive messages on
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`23
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`your smartphone or cell phone?
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`24 A.
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`25 Q.
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`It will receive messages, yes.
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`1
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`7
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`deposition that you don't review any emails
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`and focus on the deposition. And you'll let
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`me know if you have to, obviously, check
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`your email during the course of a break or
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`something like that. Obviously, we'll take
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`a break and let you do that on your personal
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`time. Okay?
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`8 A.
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`Okay.
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`9 Q.
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`All right. Did you bring anything
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`10
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`11
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`with you for your deposition today,
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`physically?
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`12 A.
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`I have the exhibits from the
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`13
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`14
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`deposition. I have the exhibits that I used
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`in my declarations.
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`15 Q.
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`Okay. So you beat me to the punch
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`on the next question. So I assume that you
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`have copies of the declarations that you
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`provided in the 103 and the 104 IPR matters
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`that I mentioned before; correct?
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`20 A.
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`Yes, I do.
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`21 Q.
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`Are they electronic or hard copies?
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`22 A.
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`I have both.
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`23 Q.
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`Okay. Great.
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`Are they clean
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`24
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`copies, no mark-ups?
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`Yes, no mark-ups.
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`25 A.
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`1 Q.
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`And you mentioned you had copies of
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`the exhibits for your declarations; is that
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`right?
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`4 A.
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`Yes. I believe I have all the
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`5
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`exhibits.
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`6 Q.
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`Okay. And are those clean copies?
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`7 A.
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`Yes.
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`8 Q.
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`Do you have those in electronic or
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`9
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`hard copy form?
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`10 A.
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`I have them in both.
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`11 Q.
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`Okay. Great.
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`12 As I mentioned -- well, you have
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`13
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`14
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`15
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`16
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`17
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`two declarations. Let's get the
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`nomenclature right, I guess. One
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`declaration which relates to IPR2021-1003
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`relates to your opinions regarding the '276
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`patent; correct.
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`18 A.
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`That sounds correct, yes.
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`19 Q.
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`And the other declaration regarding
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`20
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`21
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`IPR2021-00104, that relates to your opinions
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`concerning the '657 patent; correct?
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`22 A.
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`Yes.
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`23 Q.
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`Okay. Now, both of those exhibits,
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`24
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`25
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`because they're in separate IPR matters,
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`1 Do you see that in the bottom
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`2
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`right, I believe, of your declarations?
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`3 A.
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`I recall noting that. I can put
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`4
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`them in front of me now. Yes.
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`5 Q.
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`Okay. So for purposes of being
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`6
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`7
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`8
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`able to identify them, I may refer to your
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`declarations today as collectively the
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`declarations.
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`9 If we want to talk about a specific
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`10
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`11
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`12
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`13
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`14
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`declaration, we can try -- I'll try to do
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`this. Maybe I'll refer to the first one as
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`the '276 declaration, which will refer to
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`your opinion -- I'm sorry. Let me start
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`over.
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`15 Today, I'm probably going to refer
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`16
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`to -- if I'm specifically talking about your
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`declaration concerning the '276 patent as
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`the '276 declaration or something along
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`those lines.
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`20 Would that be okay with you?
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`21 A.
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`I will understand that, yes.
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`22 Q.
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`Okay. Great.
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`And then similarly,
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`for the other declaration you have, I'll
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`refer to that as the '657 declaration.
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`Okay?
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`1 A.
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`Yes, I'll understand that.
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`2 Q.
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`Since this deposition is concerning
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`3
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`4
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`5
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`6
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`7
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`both matters and your opinions regarding
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`both those patents, the questions I'm going
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`to be asking obviously are going to be
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`relating to your opinions in your
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`declaration.
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`8 So I'll ask right off the bat --
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`9
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`10
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`11
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`12
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`13
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`14
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`for the most part -- and I'm not trying to
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`trick you here -- are your opinions relating
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`to the '276 patent that are in your '276
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`declaration similar to the positions and
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`positions you're taking for the '657 patent
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`in the '657 declaration?
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`15 MR. HUYNH: Objection to form.
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`16 THE WITNESS:
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`Could you repeat the
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`17 question?
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`18
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`BY MR. PALYS:
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`19 Q.
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`Sure. And I'm happy to rephrase
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`20
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`21
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`it. Let me give you the context of what I'm
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`trying to get from you.
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`22 The two opinions that you have,
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`23
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`24
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`25
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`they're very similar. You have very similar
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`sections. You have very similar opinions
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`same words, you know, same sections, same
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`position.
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`1
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`2
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`3 So to streamline today, we can
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`4
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`5
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`6
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`7
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`certainly ask questions specific to one
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`declaration and repeat the same question for
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`the next one. What I'm trying to do is --
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`here's my question for you then.
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`8 Is it your understanding that --
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`9
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`strike that.
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`10 Are the positions in your two
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`11
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`12
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`declarations regarding the '276 patent and
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`the '657 patent, for the most part, similar?
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`13 A.
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`I would say that the opinions in
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`14
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`15
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`16
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`the reports are substantially similar.
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`They're based off the same specification and
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`much of the same prior art.
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`17 Q.
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`Yeah, thank you for that. If
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`there's a difference, obviously point that
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`out to me so we can make sure the context in
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`the record is defined.
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`21 But for the most part, we'll move
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`22
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`23
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`forward and try to make sure the record is
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`clear and that you understand my questions.
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`24 All right. So let's -- actually,
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`25
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`1
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`you open up to your '276 declaration.
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`2 Do you have it in front of you?
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`3 A.
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`Yes, I do.
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`4 Q.
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`And that's Exhibit 2009 in
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`5
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`IPR2021-00103; correct?
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`6 A.
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`Yes, it is.
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`7 Q.
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`And if you -- let's please go to
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`8
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`9
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`10
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`11
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`the signature page, which is on -- it's
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`exhibit page 128. It's your page on the
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`actual document 125. Let me know when
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`you're there.
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`12 A.
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`I am there.
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`13 Q.
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`On page 128 of Exhibit 2009,
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`14
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`15
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`there's a signature there. Is that your
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`signature?
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`16 A.
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`Yes, it is.
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`17 Q.
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`And the date was September 1, 2021,
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`18
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`correct?
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`19 A.
`
`Yes, it is.
`
`20 Q.
`
`Is that the date that you signed
`
`21
`
`this declaration?
`
`22 A.
`
`I believe so.
`
`23 Q.
`
`Okay. And is that signature a wet
`
`24
`
`signature, or is it an electronic signature?
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`That looks like a wet signature. I
`
`25 A.
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`1
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`believe I wet-signed these.
`
`2 Q.
`
`And what time during the day did
`
`3
`
`4
`
`you sign that? Morning? Afternoon?
`
`Evening?
`
`5 A.
`
`I don't recall.
`
`6 Q.
`
`And with the other declaration, if
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`you can pull up the '657 declaration,
`
`please, and go to the signature page as
`
`well. That's on page 127 of that
`
`10
`
`Exhibit 2009.
`
`11 A.
`
`Yes.
`
`12 Q.
`
`Is that your signature on page 127?
`
`13 A.
`
`Yes, it is.
`
`14 Q.
`
`And you signed it on September 1,
`
`15
`
`2021; correct?
`
`16 A.
`
`Yes.
`
`17 Q.
`
`Do you recall if you signed the
`
`18
`
`19
`
`'657 declaration first or the '276
`
`declaration first?
`
`20 A.
`
`I don't recall, off the top of my
`
`21
`
`head, no.
`
`22 Q.
`
`Okay. And I assume that you can
`
`confirm -- is that a wet signature in the
`
`23
`
`24
`
`'657 declaration?
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`That looks like a wet signature,
`
`25 A.
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`1
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`2
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`3
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`4
`
`5
`
`yes. Usually when I use an electronic
`
`signature, I use an Adobe signature, which
`
`also time stamps. It shows what looks like
`
`a signature, but also with the time stamp on
`
`it, some traceability.
`
`6 Q.
`
`Right. I'm familiar with that.
`
`7
`
`Thank you.
`
`8 So did you prepare your two
`
`9
`
`declarations by yourself?
`
`10 A.
`
`The opinions contained in the
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`declaration are mine. In working on the
`
`declarations, I did have assistance from the
`
`legal team.
`
`14 Q.
`
`Okay. The assistance that you
`
`15
`
`16
`
`received -- well, let me ask you this.
`
`Strike that.
`
`17 Did you receive any assistance from
`
`18
`
`anyone else other than your legal team?
`
`19 A.
`
`I have an engineer who works with
`
`20
`
`21
`
`me who helped with some of the SPICE
`
`modeling.
`
`22 Q.
`
`Okay. So that -- the legal team
`
`that you mentioned, who is that? That
`
`23
`
`24
`
`assisted you with the declaration?
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`That would be the attorneys
`
`25 A.
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`1
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`present, Darish Huynh and Annita Zhong.
`
`Page 18
`
`2 Q.
`
`Anyone else?
`
`3 A.
`
`I've had numerous conversations
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`with Maclain Wells. But he's working on a
`
`federal court case. I'm not sure if he
`
`would have overlapped on some of this.
`
`7 Q.
`
`Anyone else?
`
`8 A.
`
`I spoke with one of the inventors.
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`I believe I referenced somebody had
`
`confirmed something in my report of
`
`Dr. Pethe.
`
`12 Q.
`
`We'll get back to that. What I was
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`referring to was of the legal team. Any
`
`other attorneys? I have Darish and Annita
`
`and Mr. Wells.
`
`16 Is there anyone else from the legal
`
`17
`
`18
`
`team that you might have received assistance
`
`from, in preparing your declaration?
`
`19 A.
`
`I don't recall others. There may
`
`20
`
`21
`
`be other people within the background. I
`
`wouldn't know that.
`
`22 Q.
`
`Okay. Now, in terms of people --
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`non-lawyers, non-attorneys, that assisted
`
`you in the preparation of your declaration,
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`1
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`that. Who was that?
`
`2 A.
`
`Yeah, there was an engineer that
`
`3
`
`4
`
`works for me that I had help with some of
`
`the SPICE modeling.
`
`5 Q.
`
`What is his name or her claim?
`
`6 A.
`
`His name is Khanh Hoang.
`
`7 Q.
`
`Can you spell that, please, for the
`
`8
`
`record?
`
`9 A.
`
`Khanh, first name. Last name
`
`10
`
`H-o-a-n-g.
`
`11 Q.
`
`And he works for what company?
`
`12 A.
`
`Glew Engineering.
`
`13 Q.
`
`Is he located in -- does he work at
`
`14
`
`your office there in Mountain View?
`
`15 A.
`
`He works here, and he works at
`
`16
`
`home.
`
`17 Q.
`
`And what did Mr. -- is it Hoang?
`
`18
`
`Am I pronouncing that correctly?
`
`19 A.
`
`I pronounce it Hoang.
`
`20 Q.
`
`Hoang. Got it. Hoang.
`
`21 What did Mr. Hoang help you with in
`
`22
`
`23
`
`terms of assisting your preparation of your
`
`declaration?
`
`24 A.
`
`As I stated earlier, he helped with
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`some of the SPICE models.
`
`25
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`
`1 Q.
`
`When you say "SPICE models," can
`
`2
`
`you please clarify what you mean?
`
`3 A.
`
`Okay. Examples of the SPICE models
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`are given in Appendix B, and there are some
`
`others that are in smaller size in the
`
`report.
`
`7 A SPICE model is, for example,
`
`8
`
`9
`
`drawing an electrical circuit, then looking
`
`at the Bode plot or frequency response of
`
`10
`
`the circuit.
`
`11 Q.
`
`When did you first begin using
`
`12
`
`13
`
`Mr. Hoang to assist you with your
`
`declaration?
`
`14 A.
`
`I don't recall exactly when I was
`
`15
`
`doing the SPICE modeling.
`
`16 Q.
`
`It had to have been before
`
`17
`
`September 1; right?
`
`18 A.
`
`Yes.
`
`19 Q.
`
`So can you explain what you asked,
`
`20
`
`21
`
`what you instructed Mr. Hoang to do to
`
`assist you?
`
`22 A.
`
`In some cases, I would draw the
`
`23
`
`24
`
`25
`
`schematic. In other cases, I would have him
`
`draw the schematic that I was interested in
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`analyzing. Either he or I would run a Bode
`
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`1
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`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`plot on it. And then I would also run, or
`
`have him run different iterations with
`
`different resistor values or something like
`
`that in the circuit, and then create PDFs.
`
`5 Q.
`
`So did you communicate with
`
`6
`
`7
`
`8
`
`Mr. Hoang using email or those instructions
`
`in terms of the assistance that he provided
`
`you with your declarations?
`
`9 A.
`
`Usually verbally.
`
`10 Q.
`
`Phone calls?
`
`11 A.
`
`No, I walked down the hall. He's
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`usually in the other suite we have here; so
`
`I walk over and talked to him, or have him
`
`come over here.
`
`15 Q.
`
`So in all instances where you had
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`communications with Mr. Hoang with respect
`
`to assisting you with your declarations, it
`
`was done in person; is that accurate?
`
`19 MR. HUYNH: Objection to form.
`
`20 THE WITNESS:
`
`My recollection, as I
`
`21 stated, was I would typically work with
`
`22 him in person when he was here on it. I
`
`23 may have had a few conversations with
`
`24 him to ask him to run a different
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`25 iteration.
`
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`1
`
`BY MR. PALYS:
`
`2 Q.
`
`When you say "conversations," do
`
`3
`
`you mean conversations over the phone?
`
`4 A.
`
`Yes. Potentially I spoke to him
`
`5
`
`over the phone.
`
`6 Q.
`
`You never communicated with him
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`over other means such as email, regarding
`
`the work he was doing for you, for your
`
`declarations?
`
`10 A.
`
`I may have. It's not typically how
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`I work with him on things like that.
`
`Typically the files are in a folder, and we,
`
`you know -- we can both open the SPICE
`
`models and look at them and run them from
`
`our computers, talk about them either in
`
`person or over the phone.
`
`17 Q.
`
`So when you mentioned files and
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`21
`
`folders -- so do you have copies of files in
`
`stored folders of the work you did to
`
`prepare the SPICE models that you provided
`
`in your declaration?
`
`22 A.
`
`Yes, I have the SPICE models.
`
`23 Q.
`
`Do you have the work -- any files
`
`24
`
`25
`
`or other work product, I guess, that you
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`relied on to prepare those SPICE models to
`
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`1
`
`support your opinions in your declaration?
`
`2 MR. HUYNH: Objection to form.
`
`Page 23
`
`3 Outside the scope.
`
`4
`
`BY MR. PALYS:
`
`5 Q.
`
`You can answer, sir.
`
`6 A.
`
`The SPICE models are based upon a
`
`7
`
`schematic that appear in my declaration.
`
`8 Q.
`
`I understand that. My question is
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`you mentioned that you were doing work with
`
`Mr. Hoang to prepare the SPICE models, and
`
`then you had several communications with
`
`him, et cetera, and you mentioned these
`
`files and folders.
`
`14 So my question is: Do you have
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`copies of the work product, whether they're
`
`files, folders, and what have you, that you
`
`relied on to support your opinions regarding
`
`this -- the SPICE models that you presented
`
`in your declarations?
`
`20 MR. HUYNH: Same objections.
`
`21 THE WITNESS:
`
`Yes, I have the SPICE
`
`22 models and the printouts of the SPICE
`
`23 models, which are in my report.
`
`24
`
`BY MR. PALYS:
`
`25 Q.
`
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`What did you -- what did you do to
`
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`prepare the SPICE models that are presented
`
`Page 24
`
`in your declarations?
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3 A.
`
`Well, SPICE models generally fall
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`along the steps of drawing a schematic, and
`
`the schematics that I drew are shown in the
`
`report. An example would be the first page
`
`of Appendix B, if we can turn to that.
`
`8 Q.
`
`So I'm looking at the first page of
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`Appendix B, and I see a certain diagram. On
`
`the bottom left, I see a file name,
`
`.acdec1000.001 100 mg. Is that the figure
`
`you're looking at?
`
`13 A.
`
`Yes. That's not the file name. My
`
`14
`
`15
`
`16
`
`lights just turned out due to California
`
`environmental regulations. Let me turn them
`
`back on.
`
`17 Actually, that thing at the bottom
`
`18
`
`19
`
`is not the file name. It's just conditions
`
`of the SPICE model.
`
`20 Q.
`
`Okay. So this is -- this image
`
`21
`
`22
`
`here and the other images that I see, these
`
`are all represented in files?
`
`23 A.
`
`Yeah, so this is a file. It's
`
`24
`
`25
`
`called a schematic capture or a CAD file or
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`whatever you want. It's basically a
`
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 138-16 Filed 03/18/22 Page 26 of 290
`
`schematic. It's basically something in the
`
`Page 25
`
`report.
`
`1
`
`2
`
`3 We see a capacitor with a certain
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`value, C2. We see an inductor with a
`
`certain value, L1, and then we see resistors
`
`R1 and R2.
`
`7 So one draws this; so that is the
`
`8
`
`9
`
`10
`
`11
`
`12
`
`13
`
`SPICE model. If you pull up the SPICE
`
`model, you see this. And then you hit "Run"
`
`and you see what is on the next page, which
`
`is -- it shows the frequency response
`
`versus -- you know, the amplitude versus
`
`frequency and the frequency response.
`
`14 Q.
`
`Now, did you -- I have a few
`
`15
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`19
`
`20
`
`questions: Number one, what's -- well, let
`
`me start with this. The schematic and the
`
`plots that we see here in Appendix B, these
`
`are all represented in files that are stored
`
`in some folder that you have possession of;
`
`correct?
`
`21 MR. HUYNH: Objection to form.
`
`22 THE WITNESS:
`
`This is the -- this
`
`23 is what you see when you look at the
`
`24 SPICE model.
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`25
`
`///
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`1
`
`BY MR. PALYS:
`
`2 Q.
`
`Right. So my question is: Leading
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`6
`
`7
`
`up to this to create these schematics and
`
`the associated analysis regarding the SPICE
`
`models that you have here, did you store any
`
`files relating to that work in that folder
`
`or some other folder?
`
`8 MR. HUYNH: Objection to form.
`
`9 THE WITNESS:
`
`What is in this
`
`10 folder is the SPICE model and then the
`
`11 plots, what you see on the next page.
`
`12 So we would print out a picture of the
`
`13 schematic, either as a PDF or a JPEG or
`
`14 something like that, and then we print
`
`15 out a picture of the plot. Otherwise
`
`16 it's just on the screen. And --
`
`17
`
`BY MR. PALYS:
`
`18 Q.
`
`What --
`
`19 A.
`
`That's it.
`
`20 Q.
`
`Sorry. Thank you. I didn't mean
`
`21
`
`to interrupt you.
`
`22 When you refer to SPICE models,
`
`you're referring to a software program;
`
`23
`
`24
`
`correct? SPICE?
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`Kind of. SPICE goes back decades.
`
`25 A.
`
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`1
`
`2
`
`3
`
`4
`
`5
`
`I think it probably was originally developed
`
`at Berkeley, and there are a couple of
`
`different iterations of SPICE. I believe
`
`it's open source. So companies create SPICE
`
`models, SPICE packages.
`
`6 This is a particular company's free
`
`7
`
`8
`
`9
`
`SPICE model. They provide you the basic
`
`SPICE analysis and all of their parts in
`
`SPICE format. So if you want to use their
`
`10
`
`parts.
`
`11 Q.
`
`So which specific software is this
`
`12
`
`and who provided that software?
`
`13 A.
`
`I believe I noted this in my report
`
`14
`
`as LT SPICE. I can confirm.
`
`15 Yes, in paragraph 75 of my '276
`
`16
`
`17
`
`18
`
`declaration -- I'm sorry. I grabbed the
`
`wrong declaration. Page -- I'm in the '276
`
`declaration now. Paragraph 75 also, yes.
`
`19 Using the LT SPICE program, an
`
`20
`
`21
`
`22
`
`23
`
`24
`
`electronic circuit simulator software from
`
`analog devices made freely available, I
`
`simulated the response curves for the above
`
`parallel resident circuit, so forth and so
`
`on.
`
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`25 You see smaller copies here on the
`
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`1
`
`2
`
`page and full-size copies in the appendix.
`
`They may be hard to read in small size.
`
`3 Q.
`
`So what version of this LT SPICE
`
`4
`
`program did you use?
`
`5 A.
`
`You mean what revision?
`
`6 Q.
`
`Yeah, what version. What year is
`
`7
`
`that?
`
`8 A.
`
`The latest and greatest. Whatever
`
`9
`
`was available at the time.
`
`10 Q.
`
`Which is what?
`
`11 A.
`
`I don't recall the revision number
`
`12
`
`13
`
`14
`
`15
`
`off the top of my head. You can go to the
`
`website and download it for free and then
`
`update it accordingly. It was whatever was
`
`available --
`
`16 Q.
`
`Is that how -- is that how you got
`
`17
`
`this SPICE program, you downloaded it?
`
`18 A.
`
`You've interrupted me twice now.
`
`19 Q.
`
`Sorry.
`
`20 A.
`
`It was what was current at the time
`
`21
`
`I performed the SPICE modeling.
`
`22 Q.
`
`Okay. Thank you. And I apologize
`
`for interrupting. Sometimes my headphones
`
`23
`
`24
`
`cut out and I get dead space.
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`I understand. It's hard to know on
`
`25 A.
`
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 138-16 Filed 03/18/22 Page 30 of 290
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`this when someone has stopping talking
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`Page 29
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`sometimes.
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`1
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`2
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`3 Q.
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`I appreciate that. Just let me
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`4
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`know when I cut you off. I don't mind.
`
`5 So you got the LT SPICE program.
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`6
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`7
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`You downloaded that at the time when you
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`were preparing your declarations; correct?
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`8 MR. HUYNH: Objection to form.
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`9 THE WITNESS:
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`I've had SPICE models
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`10 I used on and off for years. For this
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`11 particular project, I used LT SPICE or
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`12 whatever current at the time. I think
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`13 it's one of the better free versions at
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`14 this point.
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`15
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`BY MR. PALYS:
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`16 Q.
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`Right. My question is: The
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`17
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`18
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`19
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`20
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`program that you actually used to run these
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`models, did you download it at that time, or
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`did you already have it available in your
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`possession before you ran these simulations?
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`21 A.
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`My recollection is I had a
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`22
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`23
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`different SPICE program. Khanh Hoang likes
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`this SPICE program so he used this one.
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`24 Q.
`
`So Mr. Hoang actually downloaded
`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
`the SPICE program that was used to run these
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`25
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`Page 29 of 289
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`TSG Reporting - Worldwide· · 877-702-9580
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`YVer1f
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`Page 30
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 138-16 Filed 03/18/22 Page 31 of 290
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`1
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`simulations?
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`2 MR. HUYNH: Objection to form.
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`3 THE WITNESS:
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`I downloaded the
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`4 SPICE software, have it on my computer.
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`5 He would also have it on his
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`6 workstation. We have engineering work
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`7 stations.
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`8
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`BY MR. PALYS:
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`9 Q.
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`So Mr. Hoang had downloaded a copy
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`10
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`11
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`12
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`of the simulation program on his computer,
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`and you also had a copy of the simulation
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`program on your computer; correct?
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`13 A.
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`Yes, I have --
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`14 MR. HUYNH: Object
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