Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 1 of 9
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 2 of 9
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` UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
` WACO DIVISION
`DEMARAY, LLC
`) Docket No. WA 20-CA-634 ADA
` )
`vs.
` ) Waco, Texas
` )
`INTEL CORPORATION
` ) September 27, 2021
`__________________________________________________________
` UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
` WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS
` WACO DIVISION
`) Docket No. WA 20-CA-636 ADA
`DEMARAY, LLC
` )
` ) Waco, Texas
`vs.
` )
`SAMSUNG ELECTRONICS CO., )
`
`LTD. (A KOREAN COMPANY), )
`ET AL
`) September 27, 2021
`
`
`TRANSCRIPT OF VIDEOCONFERENCE DISCOVERY HEARING
` BEFORE THE HONORABLE ALAN D. ALBRIGHT
`
`
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`
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`APPEARANCES:
`For the Plaintiff:
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`Mr. Crawford Maclain Wells
`Irell & Manella, LLP
`1800 Avenue of the Stars,
`Suite 900
`Los Angeles, California 90067
`Mr. Richard D. Milvenan
`McGinnis Lochridge, LLP
`1111 West 6th Street, Suite 400
`Austin, Texas 78701
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`For Intel Corporation: Ms. Sonal N. Mehta
`Wilmer, Cutler, Pickering,
`Hale & Dorr, LLP
`2600 El Camino Real, Suite 400
`Palo Alto, California 94306
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`LILY I. REZNIK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
`U.S. DISTRICT COURT, WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS (AUSTIN)
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 3 of 9
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`2
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`(Appearances Continued:)
`Mr. Yar R. Chaikovsky
`For Intel Corporation
`And Samsung Electronics: Mr. Philip Ou
`Paul Hastings, LLP
`1117 South California Avenue
`Palo Alto, California 94304
`Mr. Brian C. Nash
`Pillsbury, Winthrop,
`Shaw, Pittman, LLP
`401 Congress Avenue, Suite 1700
`Austin, Texas 78701
`Mr. Cosmin Maier
`Desmarais, LLP
`230 Park Avenue
`New York, New York 10169
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`Court Reporter:
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`Ms. Lily Iva Reznik, CRR, RMR
`501 West 5th Street, Suite 4153
`Austin, Texas 78701
`(512)391-8792
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`Proceedings reported by computerized stenography,
`transcript produced by computer-aided transcription.
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`LILY I. REZNIK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
`U.S. DISTRICT COURT, WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS (AUSTIN)
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 4 of 9
`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 4 of 9
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`16
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`And I'm assuming, Mr. Wells, that's you.
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`MR. WELLS: Your Honor,
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`that's actually what
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`we've just discussed.
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`THE COURT:
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`Oh,
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`I
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`thought we were discussing
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`Interrogatories No.
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`2 and 3 was the last.
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`MR. WELLS:
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`So Interrogatories 2 and 3
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`is the
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`next
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`issue and I will be addressing that.
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`THE COURT:
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`No, no.
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`I'm good.
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`I
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`thought
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`you say -- so that's very good.
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`Thank you.
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`MR. WELLS:
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`So to reorient ourselves, your Honor,
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`Interrogatory No.
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`2 asks for protective mechanisms used in
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`the reactors that they've identified as having a DC power
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`supply to the target and an RF bias. Because everybody
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`defendants have identified a certain subset of the
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`agrees that there's a risk you're going to damage the DC
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`power supply if you don't do something and if it's not an
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`RF filter, what are you using so that we can evaluate
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`equivalents issues?
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`And then,
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`rog No.
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`3 asks if there is a filter
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`there, we need to know the details.
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`Is it configured to
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`be a band rejection filter that will require circuit
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`analysis, and what's the bandwidth attenuated and what
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`frequency is it designed to operate at? And that would
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`obviously involve development,
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`technical documents and
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`potential testing and inspection.
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`Now,
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`in response,
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`LILY I. REZNIK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
`U.S. DISTRICT COURT, WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS (AUSTIN)
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 5 of 9
`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 5 of 9
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`1]
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`2|
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`3]/
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`reactors that they admit have a filter for certain
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`chambers.
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`But
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`they haven't provided any details on the
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`type or operation of the filter, and hence, we can't
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`4) determine if it's a band rejection filter or what
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`the
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`5!] operating bandwidth and frequency are.
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`6
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`And then,
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`for those chambers that they haven't
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`16:40:04 7|identified a RF filter for, they haven't identified a
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`8}
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`9/
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`single alternative protective mechanism.
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`They ask us to
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`just assume that they run the risk of burning up their DC
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`10| power supply.
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`Now, we think that's extremely unlikely,
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`11] given increased downtime, costs, yield impact, and the
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`16:40:25 12|like.
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`13
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`14]
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`18]
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`16]
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`Now,
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`if you'll recall, defendants have repeatedly
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`told the Court for over a year that they have no details
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`on the filters or alternative protection mechanisms and
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`their reactors.
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`They say -- put their hands up in the
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`16:40:40 17|air, they say, we don't know. Well, that's not really
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`16:40:43 18|accurate because they have the reactors themselves. And
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`16:40:48
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`19/
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`any engineer doing the reasonable good-faith investigation
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`16:40:52 20|into this and inspecting these reactors should be able to
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`16:40:56 21|identify whether there is an RF filter or what the
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`16:40:59
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`22| alternative protective mechanisms are. This is akin toa
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`16:41:03 23|car owner saying he has no idea if his car has an
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`25| It's certainly possible to do this type of inspection.
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`16:41:07 24|alternator. Pop the hood and look. It's not that hard.
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`16:41:10
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`LILY I. REZNIK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
`U.S. DISTRICT COURT, WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS (AUSTIN)
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 6 of 9
`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 6 of 9
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`48
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`Your Honor may recall at
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`the Markman hearing
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`defendants' counsel suddenly came up with the idea that in
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`certain of the Applied reactors that do have a filter,
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`that, oh,
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`these are not
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`low-pass filters.
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`And you may
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`recall, we were pretty surprised that they had that
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`additional detail, given their prior claims of ignorance.
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`Now, we've met and conferred with the other side
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`and said, where did you get this additional detail? And
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`we were told that, oh,
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`that was work product, attorney
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`analysis, and they weren't providing additional details.
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`Well,
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`if the attorneys can do it, certainly engineers at
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`Samsung and Intel should be able to do it and provide us
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`the additional details.
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`Now,
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`in response to this motion,
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`they've agreed
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`to do an inspection but refuse to allow Demaray to
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`participate.
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`And the problem there is that they've been
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`doing everything possible to avoid disclosing the details
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`the radiator? What's that thing with the belt connected
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`on these filters for over a year, despite multiple court
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`orders,
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`a stipulation between the parties, and multiple
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`meet-and-confers.
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`And going back to the car analogy,
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`this is if
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`they lift up the hood and say, oh, we can't see an
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`alternator, we're done, you know, Demaray can be there and
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`say, well, can you take a look at
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`the bottom left behind
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`LILY I. REZNIK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
`U.S. DISTRICT COURT, WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS (AUSTIN)
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 7 of 9
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`66
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`* * * * * *
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT )
`WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS )
`
`I, LILY I. REZNIK, Certified Realtime Reporter,
`Registered Merit Reporter, in my capacity as Official
`Court Reporter of the United States District Court,
`Western District of Texas, do certify that the foregoing
`is a correct transcript from the record of proceedings in
`the above-entitled matter.
`I certify that the transcript fees and format comply
`with those prescribed by the Court and Judicial Conference
`of the United States.
`WITNESS MY OFFICIAL HAND this the 10th day of October,
`2021.
`
`/s/Lily I. Reznik
`LILY I. REZNIK, CRR, RMR
`Official Court Reporter
`United States District Court
`Austin Division
`501 West 5th Street,
`Suite 4153
`Austin, Texas 78701
`(512)391-8792
`SOT Certification No. 4481
`Expires: 1-31-23
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`LILY I. REZNIK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
`U.S. DISTRICT COURT, WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS (AUSTIN)
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 8 of 9
`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 8 of 9
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`49
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`to the fan? We shouldn't have to take their word for it
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`is the point.
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`So the resolution's easy. There's literally
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`dozens,
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`if not hundreds, of reactors at different
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`locations that they've identified as being at
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`issue of
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`having the DC power source and the RF bias.
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`Surely not
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`all of these are in process 24 hours a day.
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`They should
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`identify what
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`they think are representative reactors for a
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`given grouping.
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`And they should do an inspection with us
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`participating.
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`And I understand that they've raised
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`security issues and issues about us going in their clean
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`room, and we've said, hey, we can do it remotely. We'll
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`participate on some secured video link during your
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`inspection, and we can take a look at that.
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`They've also said, well, you might not be able to
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`look at certain parts.
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`They might not be readily
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`accessible without
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`taking apart the reactor significantly.
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`And they've said for those, how about we just give you
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`Spare parts or order parts, but you guys gotta pay for
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`they could do what
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`them. There's a couple of problems with that.
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`parts could be hundreds of thousands of dollars.
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`These
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`We have
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`no idea. Certainly there are certain expensive parts in
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`this. We're contemplating doing this in lieu of a live
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`inspection to alleviate their claimed burden. After we
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`inspect the parts,
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`they can reuse them,
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`LILY I. REZNIK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
`U.S. DISTRICT COURT, WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS (AUSTIN)
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`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 9 of 9
`Case 5:20-cv-09341-EJD Document 133-6 Filed 03/09/22 Page 9 of 9
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`50
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`they want with them.
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`So if,
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`for some reason, we had to do destructive
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`testing, we could meet and confer regarding that.
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`But as
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`is, we should be able to either do the inspection ourself,
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`or 1f we need to do it remotely, or we don't have access
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`to a specific part,
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`they should make it available at their
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`offices in the Western District of Texas, whether that's
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`Applied's offices, Samsung's or Intel's, and then, we can
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`go through these parts and determine if the filter
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`going to have RF bias to substrate, we recommend you put
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`limitations are met or if there is an equivalents issue
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`regarding an alternative protective mechanism. That's it,
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`your Honor.
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`THE COURT:
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`A response.
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`MR. OU:
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`Thank you, your Honor. Philip Ou for
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`the defendants.
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`Your Honor,
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`is my audio okay?
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`THE COURT: Yes, sir.
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`MR. OU: Okay. Great.
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`Thank you, your Honor.
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`Your Honor,
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`I want
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`to first start with Mr. Wells'
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`statement, and I've heard him say it multiple times,
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`that
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`everybody knows that the DC power supply needs some type
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`of protection mechanism. What Mr. Wells is citing to is
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`Since the 1990s,
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`the power supply manuals did have this
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`warning.
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`It had a warning in there that said if you're
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`LILY I. REZNIK, OFFICIAL COURT REPORTER
`U.S. DISTRICT COURT, WESTERN DISTRICT OF TEXAS (AUSTIN)
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