Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 1 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 1 of 26
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`EXHIBIT 21
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`UNREDACTED VERSION OF
`DOCUMENT SOUGHT TO BE
`SEALED
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 2 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 2 of 26
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL- OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`
`NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
`
`SAN FRANCISCO DIVISION
`
`--000--
`
`FINJAN,
`
`Inc., a Delaware
`
`corporation
`
`Plaintiff,
`
`vs.
`
`Case No. 3:17-cv-05659-WHA
`
`JUNIPER NETWORKS,
`
`INC., a
`
`Delaware corporation
`
`Defendant.
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL, OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
`
`30(b) (6) VIDEOTAPED DEPOSITION OF
`
`JOHN GARLAND
`
`Thursday, May 24, 2018
`
`
`
`
`Reported by:
`
`COREY W. ANDERSON
`
`CSR No. 4096
`
`Job No, 2923791
`
`Pages 1
`
`- 258
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`
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`Page 1
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 3 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 3 of 26
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`another whether the Finjan
`
`VitalSecurity Appliance embodied
`
`the invention that's described in
`
`the '926 patent?")
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I'm sorry, one more.
`
`(Whereupon,
`
`the reporter read back
`
`the record as follows:
`
`"So you don't know one way or
`
`another whether the Finjan
`
`VitalSecurity Appliance embodied
`
`the invention that's described in
`
`the '926 patent?")
`
`THE WITNESS: Yeah,
`
`I don't -- I'm not
`
`positive.
`
`I mean,
`
`I don't know.
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`Page 192
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`BY MS. CARSON:
`
`QO.
`
`Do you know whether Finjan or any of its
`
`licensees sold any commercial embodiment of the '926
`
`patent
`
`from the date it issued until the date it
`
`expired?
`
`MS. KOBIALKA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: No,
`
`I don't.
`
`BY MS. CARSON:
`
`Q.
`
`Did you personally participate in any
`
`discussions with Juniper prior to Finjan filing this
`
`action?
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 4 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 4 of 26
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`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Yeah.
`
`Can you describe for me your
`
`participation?
`
`A,
`
`So I participated in a call in November of
`
`2015 with Scott Coonan.
`
`So I
`
`think I originally reached out to
`
`Meredith McKenzie because there is -- Phil Hartstein
`
`and Juhlie Mar-Spinola, Meredith in some way in the
`
`professional world. And Meredith,
`
`I
`
`think I -- so I
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`remember I started in licensing around August of
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`2015, and I know,
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`I assume in the negotiation that
`
`had started sometime in 2014 with Ivan Chaperot and
`
`included some meetings took place with Scott Coonan
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`5h
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`And in preparation for that call with
`
`Scott
`
`in November,
`
`just kind of received the
`
`download on Juniper in terms of its product offering
`
`and the negotiation history, as well as, you know,
`
`potential patents it's utilizing.
`
`So eventually arrange a call with Scott,
`
`and it's late November, it's near a day or two
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`
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`Page 193
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`and correspondence back and forth with Meredith and
`
`Scott Coonan in 2014 and meeting in 2014, as well as
`
`one in January of 2015.
`
`So then I kind of pick up
`
`again in the fall.
`
`Ivan's no longer with the
`
`company.
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 5 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 5 of 26
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`before Thanksgiving,
`
`is kind of my recollection.
`
`I
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`15:
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`:32
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`recall him being a half hour late to the call.
`
`He
`
`asked me to postpone it 30 minutes.
`
`We had the call.
`
`It was an awkward call,
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`not on my part, on his part.
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`It was clear that --
`
`it's clear to me and it's later documented in an
`
`email
`
`I sent
`
`to Meredith that Scott had an apparent
`
`bias on the call,
`
`just in terms of some of the
`
`phrase and I would say treatment
`
`I was receiving.
`
`I was very clear with him that if Finjan
`
`had, you know, had legitimate, had done good work
`
`and had a legitimate claim of infringement on at
`
`least six patents,
`
`the three that we had claim
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`charted against the SRX series gateway product as
`
`well as the Sky Advanced Threat Protection, ATP
`
`product, and that we were willing to -- I was
`
`trying -- the purpose of the call was to arrange a
`
`meeting since we were both in the Valley,
`
`just a
`
`meeting where we could go through in a conference
`
`room and present our findings, we were open to, you
`
`know, Juniper's feedback, push-back, whatever, see
`
`if the parties could just reach a conclusion.
`
`It's
`
`not an atypical approach that
`
`I have taken with
`
`other companies in the security industry.
`
`Scott was against it.
`
`He was vehemently
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
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`Page 194
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`

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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 6 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 6 of 26
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL- OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`against it,
`
`that there was no way he was going to
`
`sign an NDA, and requested, you know, why don't
`
`I
`
`just send him the claim charts that I had alluded to
`
`and the patents I had alluded to which is the '968,
`
`'454 and '154.
`
`And I said well,
`
`I'm kind of reluctant to
`
`do it because either -- I don't think it's the kind
`
`of thing that you just email somebody,
`
`I
`
`think it's
`
`better to just have a conversation over it, we'd
`
`like to present it and present it in a room where we
`
`can have a dialogue and answer any of your
`
`questions.
`
`just
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`Page 195
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`And so I just said just for the sake,
`
`humor me if I send you the claim chart or one claim
`
`chart and I said I'd have to review it with Juhlie
`
`because it wasn't our standard practice, what you
`
`would do with it.
`
`And in the call he had early in the call
`
`had indicated that there was this, I'll use his
`
`words, quote "incredibly unified defense group" that
`
`was working against Finjan and was doing everything
`
`in its power to bleed Finjan dry, and that if I sent
`
`him the claim chart, he would share it.
`
`And I just said I don't think it's
`
`appropriate. This is a matter that's between, you
`
`
`
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 7 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 7 of 26
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`know, Finjan and Juniper. And you know, we just had
`
`a difference of opinion in terms of how to proceed.
`
`And I said, oh,
`
`I'11 think about it
`
`internally, we'll get back to him.
`
`And so I mean,
`
`that's just kind of a
`
`summary of the call.
`
`It was probably on the order
`
`of a half hour, maybe, 45 minutes, possibly an hour
`
`in duration.
`
`Q.
`
`Did you ever speak to him again after
`
`that?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`I have reached out
`
`to Meredith
`
`because I told her that I would be willing to work
`
`with Scott, but that the call I
`
`thought was strange,
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`somebody who has been in this industry for a long
`
`time. And so she told me to work through Scott.
`
`And what ended up happening was Juhlie
`
`like was unfamiliar with Meredith and just meet with
`
`Meredith and have coffee with her and just see
`
`whether, you know, we would have more of a meet and
`
`greet and just try to get a -- see if there is a
`
`common approach to having a meaningful exchange of
`
`information, meaning the claim charts.
`
`And they had trouble scheduling it.
`
`They
`
`were back and forth on it on the correspondence.
`
`I
`
`think it's all been produced.
`
`

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`Q.
`
`Did you ever meet with anyone in person
`
`from Juniper?
`
`A.
`
`No,
`
`I didn't.
`
`I mean,
`
`the purpose of the
`
`call in November was to try to arrange -- similar to
`
`what we do, arrange with other companies in the
`
`industry,
`
`just arrange a serious -- you know,
`
`initial meeting and then from there set up followup
`
`Meetings or calls.
`
`Q.
`
`Okay. All right.
`
`So thanks for that kind
`
`of little summary.
`
`I want
`
`to kind of unpack a few
`
`things now.
`
`
`
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 8 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 8 of 26
`
`Q.
`
`So all of that correspondence with
`
`Meredith was done via email?
`
`15:
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`:14
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`MS. KOBIALKA: Objection to form.
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`15
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`a 1
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`THE WITNESS:
`
`It could be a call between
`
`Juhlie and Meredith as well and they may have seen
`
`each other at a conference.
`
`BY MS. CARSON:
`
`Q.
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Did you have any called with Meredith?
`
`No.
`
`So in terms of telephone calls, you only
`
`had a call with Scott once in the November 2015 time
`
`frame, after that there were no phone calls that you
`
`had with anyone at Juniper?
`
`A,
`
`Correct.
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 9 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 9 of 26
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`Q.
`
`And you don't know whether it was in
`
`person or over the phone?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`Okay. And then you see a little bit below
`
`it says "Finjan provided further notice of Finjan's
`
`patents and Juniper's infringements of those patents
`
`during a November 2015 phone call between John
`
`Garland of Finjan and Mr. Coonan of Juniper. During
`
`this call Mr. Garland stated that Finjan had at
`
`least six patents that Finjan believed Juniper
`
`infringed and had claim charts directed to Juniper's
`
`security products,
`
`including the SRX gateways and
`
`Sky ATP --"
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
`
`
`
`any of those six patent numbers?
`
`A.
`
`So I -- I'm fairly certain I shared the
`
`'494 and the 1 --
`
`'154, and he had the '968, and all
`
`of those were in -- converted to the new format.
`
`And there is one other patent that's not
`
`listed here that's also claim charted that makes up
`
`
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`Verilext Legal Solutions
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`15:46:00
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`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Uh-huh.
`
`"-~ and can share them with Juniper so
`
`long as Juniper treated the charts as confidential."
`
`Do you see that?
`
`Yes.
`
`During your phone call did you identify
`
`A.
`
`Q.
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 10 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 10 of 26
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
`
`
`the sixth patent,
`
`I want
`
`to say '086 or something,
`
`but I'm doing that from memory,
`
`so it's soft.
`
`Q.
`
`So it's your testimony that you're fairly
`
`certain that you shared the specific patent numbers
`
`of the ‘494,
`
`'154,
`
`'968 and --
`
`A.
`
`'968 he already had. But
`
`the reason I
`
`recall it is -- is, you know, it was the strange
`
`call where I was really trying to convince Scott on
`
`behalf of Juniper that we were legit. Like we had
`
`engineers, we had done analysis, and it was worth --
`
`it was worth his time and effort.
`
`It was a serious, you know, a serious
`
`outreach to Juniper to engage and similar to that we
`
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`ninST,
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`were engaging with others in the industry to have
`
`this exchange of information.
`
`And we were open to his feedback or
`
`comments or non-infringement arguments or whatever
`
`he wanted to present. But we wanted to at least get
`
`an opportunity to present
`
`the case.
`
`And so, you know,
`
`this is stealing.
`
`If
`
`I -- you know,
`
`so -- so there is an unwillingness to
`
`do it under an NDA.
`
`So I'm trying to probe around
`
`to try and figure out how else can we do it, how can
`
`we get this where rather than giving us this
`
`attitude of disdain and unworthiness what we can
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`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 11 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 11 of 26
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`kind of get over this hurdle and convince you that,
`
`you know, we have a legitimate claim of infringement
`
`and we just want
`
`to present it and see if we can
`
`reach an amicable resolution.
`
`And so by sharing a little bit more
`
`information, not sharing all six, but giving him an
`
`idea of the patents we had and the products that
`
`were infringing, you know,
`
`the hope was that I could
`
`turn him to say like yeah, okay, I'll -- I'll
`
`take -- we'll take the meeting.
`
`But you know, it gets awkward when he
`
`said, you know,
`
`"We are never going to sign an NDA,
`
`we have an extremely complex trade secret process,"
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`Because I was saying "Well, how does your process
`
`work?
`
`If I mail you the -- a claim chart, what
`
`happens to it?"
`
`He's like "Well, it's trade secret and
`
`it's -- you know, it's this expansive process that I
`
`can't reveal."
`
`And I was just saying "Well, what happens
`
`with the information? Does it -- like you call me
`
`in a year from now or six weeks from now? Like I'm
`
`trying to get a sense of -- of timeframe."
`
`And you know, his answer is -- because we
`
`were debating this, seriously debating whether we
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`15:48:48
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`Veritext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
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`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 12 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 12 of 26
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
`
`48
`251
`
`15:
`
`would send one additional one which I
`
`thought was in
`
`a better format and a more compelling claim chart
`
`format.
`
`And you know, it kind of ends when -- or
`
`at least, you know, when he says he is -- he would
`
`wouldn't honor it in terms of its confidentiality
`
`and he would share it, he would absolutely share it
`
`with Finjan's defendants.
`
`And so...
`
`10
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`12
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`13
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`14
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`Q.
`
`Why did Finjan care if it got shared with
`
`other defendants?
`
`MS. KOBIALKA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`So how would Juniper feel if
`
`I published the infringement on the Website? Sol
`
`15
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`:48
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`or
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`702
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`249;
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`05
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`2:12
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`15
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`249
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`215
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`15
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`:49
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`:17
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`15
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`:49
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`:19
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`15
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`:49
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`BA
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`15
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`749
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`:24
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`:27
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`
`
`iS
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`think -- I
`
`think there is a -- a civil way to handle
`
`this kind of issue. Right? And I
`
`think I have
`
`handled it for 25 years in a fashion where it can be
`
`done and it can be done with and without NDA,
`
`to be
`
`honest.
`
`But
`
`I
`
`think that's why you would ask the
`
`question like what if I give you the information,
`
`what are you going to do with it.
`
`And it's not an answer that I have
`
`typically heard or have heard in the past, which is
`
`I have certain suppliers and I may want to share it
`
`
`
`Verilext Legal Solutions
`866 299-5127
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`
`
`
`15
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`749
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`15
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`:49
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`15
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`15
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`:41
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`:49
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`:49
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`Sn:
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`254
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`A)
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`Page 214
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`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 13 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 13 of 26
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
`
`"No,
`
`I'm going
`
`to share it, publish it, I'd like to put Finjan on
`
`television."
`
`It's just a disrespectful answer. And
`
`as I said, it had a bias.
`
`So I went back to Meredith saying I didn't
`
`love the call, but I'm not giving up.
`
`You know,
`
`it's the same kind of thing,
`
`I forget when the email
`
`got written.
`
`We have a legitimate case, we are
`
`transparent, we'll show you how the patents are
`
`reading on your products and services.
`
`And if you want me to still deal with
`
`Scott,
`
`like it wasn't a great start, definitely got
`
`off on the left foot. But if you want me to deal
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`old)
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`:38
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` with my suppliers. This was an overt
`
`
`
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`750
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`250
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`| KS
`
`maST:
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`50
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`:56
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`15;
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`Sr is
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`02
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`15) 5
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`51:
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`Page 215
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`866 299-5127
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`with Scott,
`
`I'm happy to deal with Scott. And like
`
`I said,
`
`she said "Yeah, you should deal with Scott."
`
`At that point Juhlie made a decision and
`
`said "Let me have coffee or lunch or something with
`
`Meredith,
`
`let me see if we can get this kind of
`
`animosity or tension out of the room or discussion."
`
`Q.
`
`When you had your call with Mr. Coonan,
`
`did you tell him about any specific infringement
`
`claims related to the '494 for specific products?
`
`MS. KOBIALKA: Objection,
`
`form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I know for sure going into
`
`the call that I knew it, what
`
`the three patents were
`
`15
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`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 14 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 14 of 26
`
`mapped to. And, you know,
`
`the '968 is somewhat a
`
`nonstarter because the parties kind of disputing
`
`over it.
`
`But
`
`I believe I gave him a product for
`
`each,
`
`the '154 and the '494.
`
`BY MS. CARSON:
`
`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`Sr
`ORIN:
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`15
`
`oily
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`15
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`:51:
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`15
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`:51:
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`43
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`53
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`57
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`57
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`15
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`:52
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`:00
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`15
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`:52:
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`05
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`15
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`252
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`15
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`252
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`:06
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`:08
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`15;
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`15:
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`52
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`710
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`52
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`714
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`15
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`:52
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`15
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`252
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`15
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`:52
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`215
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`:18
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`2:22
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`252
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`725
`
`Q.
`
`Did you describe Finjan's infringement
`
`theory for either of those patents other than the
`
`'968 which Juhlie had already had a claim chart for?
`
`MS. KOBIALKA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS: No.
`
`I mean, again,
`
`I mean,
`
`I was, you know, my preference was to actually meet,
`
`our preference, Finjan's preference was to meet with
`
`10
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`
`
`Juniper like we met with other companies and go
`
`through this and not just go three the three
`
`patents, but
`
`to go through all six. And we were
`
`just trying to schedule and agree on a mutual
`
`process of how we can exchange this information.
`
`But as I said, you know,
`
`the reason to
`
`share the information was to try to get some
`
`credibility,
`
`seemed like we lacked credibility, and
`
`maybe Scott was unimpressed with the first two
`
`meetings,
`
`I'm not sure,
`
`I don't know what his
`
`perspective was.
`
`But
`
`I was trying to, as I said, provide
`
`
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`:32
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`134
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`15
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`252
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`:37
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`15
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`; Sy
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`:40
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`Page 216
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`

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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 15 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 15 of 26
`
`legitimacy and come up with a format that would work
`
`for both companies to allow this exchange.
`
`And so for sure I can recall, you know,
`
`sharing some information as a way, meaning patents
`
`and specific products, as a way of convincing him
`
`that we had legit analysis and we were willing to
`
`share it.
`
`BY MS. CARSON:
`
`Q.
`
`Can you describe for me everything you
`
`remember specifically about disclosing the '494
`
`patent during your phonecall with Mr. Coonan?
`
`MS. KOBIALKA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`So it would be the ‘494 and
`
`it relates to the SRX gateways or Sky ATP,
`
`I don't
`
`10
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`11
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`12
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`13
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`124
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`ORS
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`:28
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`2:29
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`15
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`or
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`three more that were going to be converted to the
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`recall which it is, have to look at the claim chart,
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`and then the vice versa for the '154.
`
`The one was
`
`mapped to SRX and one was mapped to the ATP.
`
`BY MS. CARSON:
`
`Q.
`
`Can you recall anything else that you
`
`specifically told Mr. Coonan during your phone call
`
`about
`
`the '494 or
`
`'154 patents?
`
`MS. KOBIALKA: Objection,
`
`form.
`
`THE WITNESS: No.
`
`As
`
`I stated,
`
`I knew
`
`that I had those three ready to go,
`
`I knew I had
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 16 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 16 of 26
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`new format that we had high confidence on
`
`infringement.
`
`And the whole plan was to get a meeting
`
`scheduled where we could present it we were just
`
`debating about who should be present, whether
`
`Juniper engineers would be present, whether -- well,
`
`had questions, he had questions whether Finjan even
`
`had engineers, which of course we did, and his
`
`comment was well, I'd like to meet
`
`the inventor, can
`
`you bring the inventor to the meeting.
`
`And I said no,
`
`I'm not bringing the
`
`inventor to the meeting.
`
`I did licensing for AT&T
`
`for a lot of patents where really smart people are
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`the inventor, and we used the same thing, we used
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`knowledgeable engineers in the industry to explain
`
`the patent or to help us in the analysis of these
`
`patents and answer questions at these meetings, and
`
`there is no reason for the inventor, which in this
`
`case is in Israel,
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`to fly across for this meeting.
`
`So I mean, you know, as I said, it was
`
`kind of a -- a strange call in some respects. Not
`
`on my part,
`
`I don't think.
`
`But yeah, as I stated in the emails
`
`followup there is certainly a bias or prejudice or
`
`something that existed and I don't know what it's
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 17 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 17 of 26
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL- OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`from.
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`BY MS. CARSON:
`
`Q.
`
`Did Mr. Coonan ask you for any additional
`
`information about
`
`the patents that you supposedly
`
`identified in this phone call?
`
`MS. KOBIALKA: Objection to form.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`Suppose it's a nice word,
`
`I
`
`won't
`
`take offense to that.
`
`I
`
`think I asked if there was anything
`
`additional he wanted to add.
`
`I already told him I
`
`would think about whether we would mail
`
`the claim
`
`chart, definitely he was off-putting when he was
`
`planning to share it with others.
`
`He had nothing
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`13
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`
`additional to add.
`
`I had asked him if we could get a business
`
`person involved that he had litigation in his title,
`
`and he seemed to come at it with offense,
`
`a
`
`litigator's attitude. Not all,
`
`some.
`
`Yeah.
`
`So just kind of it ended.
`
`I
`
`remember it ended sort of abruptly.
`
`It was...
`
`BY MS. CARSON:
`
`Q.
`
`Did you ever send Mr. Coonan or anyone at
`
`Juniper the claim charts that Finjan had prepared
`
`for the '494 or
`
`'154 patents?
`
`A.
`
`We didn't send them any. We were
`
`
`
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`866 299-5127
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`15
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`| ORS
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`03
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`Page 219
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 18 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 18 of 26
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL- OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`
`confident that based on the meetings and his own
`
`prior art analysis on the Finjan portfolio and
`
`his -- his own admitted knowledge of our litigations
`
`and the fact that he was talking to our defendants
`
`that he knew our patents and the patents that we
`
`were litigating under and most likely the patents he
`
`was infringing on beyond the three that we had
`
`identified.
`
`And then, you know, and I
`
`think there is
`
`10
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`13
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`14
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`some difficulty of whether we were dealing with
`
`Juniper or multiple parties,
`
`like we were still
`
`trying to figure that out based on some of his
`
`comments.
`
`But
`
`I
`
`think in our mind we felt that he
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`knew enough about our patent portfolio, our
`
`litigations at the time that were active that, you
`
`know,
`
`I don't
`
`--
`
`I don't -- we would have sent it if
`
`we thought we needed it.
`
`I
`
`think we thought we were
`
`fine,
`
`that he knew what -- he knew what we had, and
`
`we think, we are guessing, but we are thinking he
`
`knew he had a problem and he needed a license.
`
`I just don't think he likes our business
`
`model or something about Finjan.
`
`Q.
`
`Did Finjan ever send Juniper a claim chart
`
`for any of the patents-in-suit prior to the
`
`
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`15:58:
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`

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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 19 of 26
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`litigation being filed?
`
`MS. KOBIALKA: Objection,
`
`form.
`
`THE WITNESS: No.
`
`I
`
`think you know the
`
`answer to
`
`that.
`
`BY MS. CARSON:
`
`Q.
`
`Did you ever send Mr. Coonan an email or
`
`letter confirming what you had spoken about on the
`
`November
`
`2015 phone call?
`
`A.
`
`No.
`
`I
`
`tend to follow-up with Meredith,
`
`it's pret
`
`ty clear, and it definitely refers to that
`
`call.
`
`Q.
`
`I mean, you didn't identity the '494 or
`
`'154 patents in that followup correspondence, did
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` Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 19 of 26
`
`you?
`
`A.
`
`Q.
`
`Correct.
`
`Do you have any notes from your phone call
`
`with Mr. Coonan?
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I need help on this one.
`
`I
`
`have --
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`15
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`
`MS. KOBIALKA:
`
`Is it a privilege issue?
`
`THE WITNESS: Yes.
`
`MS. KOBIALKA: Okay.
`
`So can I help you
`
`through this? Or -- otherwise he is not going to
`
`answer the question -- which is she is only asking a
`
`yes-or-no question,
`
`so either you can answer yes or
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`

`
`
`
`
`advice,
`
`MS. CARSON:
`
`Hmm.
`
`
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`MS. KOBIALKA:
`
`-- would be privileged,
`
`especially like if these are the issues I need to
`
`talk about with counsel.
`
`MS. CARSON: Okay. Well, we'll just start
`
`with a yes or no, do they exist.
`
`MS. KOBIALKA:
`
`She is just asking whether
`
`or not
`
`they exist.
`
`You can answer that yes or no if
`
`you know one way or the other, you don't know, and
`
`then we'll take from it there.
`
`I don't want you to
`
`expound on it,
`
`is -- because I
`
`think that does get
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 20 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 20 of 26
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL- OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`no or you don't know.
`
`I'm not trying to direct his answer, but
`
`I'm trying to work through the privilege.
`
`If you
`
`are going to object, Counsel, I'll just stop and
`
`1SbE
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`59;
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`MS. CARSON:
`
`So I'm just trying to think
`
`through the issue because if he took like
`
`contemporaneous notes with a phone call he had with
`
`Juniper,
`
`I'm not sure how that would fall within the
`
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`scope of privilege.
`
`MS. KOBIALKA:
`
`If his question's for
`
`counsel, absolutely.
`
`I
`
`think absolutely if you
`
`would take notes for purposes of getting legal
`
`I do think that those notes --
`
`9 0
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`

`

`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 21 of 26
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 500-8 Filed 05/30/19 Page 21 of 26
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`HIGHLY CONFIDENTIAL - OUTSIDE ATTORNEYS EYES ONLY
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`into privilege issues.
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I documented the summary of
`
`that call --
`
`MS. KOBIALKA: Well, okay,
`
`so now,
`
`I want
`
`you to very careful because it starts to get into
`
`privilege issues.
`
`So you can answer the question yes or no
`
`or if you don't know, one way or the other. But
`
`I
`
`don't want
`
`to get --
`
`10
`
`11
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`12
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`13
`
`THE WITNESS:
`
`I'm n