Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 393-24 Filed 03/14/19 Page 1 of 3
`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 393-24 Filed 03/14/19 Page 1 of 3
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`EXHIBIT 22
`EXHIBIT 22
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 393-24 Filed 03/14/19 Page 2 of 3
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`APPEARANCES (CONTINUED):
`
`For Defendant: IRELL & MANELLA LLP
` 1800 Avenue of the Stars, Suite 900
` Los Angeles, California 90067-4276
` BY: JONATHAN S. KAGAN, ESQ.
` ALAN J. HEINRICH, ESQ.
` JOSHUA GLUCOFT, ESQ.
` CASEY CURRAN, ESQ.
`
` IRELL & MANELLA LLP
` 840 Newport Center Drive, Suite 400
` Newport Beach, California 92660
` BY: REBECCA CARSON, ESQ.
`
`
` Volume 2
` Pages 198 - 397
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`NORTHERN DISTRICT OF CALIFORNIA
`BEFORE THE HONORABLE WILLIAM H. ALSUP, JUDGE
`
`)
`FINJAN, INC.,
` )
` Plaintiff,
`)
` )
` VS. ) No. C 17-5659 WHA
` )
`JUNIPER NETWORKS, INC.,
`)
` )
` Defendant.
`)
` ) San Francisco, California
` Tuesday, December 11, 2018
`
`
`TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
`
`
`APPEARANCES:
`
`For Plaintiff: KRAMER, LEVIN, NAFTALIS & FRANKEL LLP
` 990 Marsh Road
` Menlo Park, California 94025
` BY: PAUL J. ANDRE, ESQ.
` LISA KOBIALKA, ESQ.
` JAMES HANNAH, ESQ.
`
` KRAMER LEVIN NAFTALIS AND FRANKEL LLP
` 1177 Avenue of the Americas
` New York, New York 10036
` BY: CRISTINA LYNN MARTINEZ, ESQ.
`
`(Appearances continued on next page)
`
`
`
`
`Reported By: Katherine Powell Sullivan, CSR No. 5812, RMR, CRR
` Jo Ann Bryce, CSR No. 3321, RMR, CRR
` Official Reporters
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`TRIAL EXHIBITS IDEN EVID VOL.
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`Tuesday, December 11, 2018 - Volume 2
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`PLAINTIFF'S WITNESSES PAGE VOL.
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`BIMS, HARRY (RECALLED)
`(PREVIOUSLY SWORN)
`Direct Examination resumed by Mr. Andre
`Cross-Examination by Mr. Kagan
`Redirect Examination by Mr. Andre
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`HARTSTEIN, PHILIP
`(SWORN)
`Direct Examination by Ms. Kobialka
`Cross-Examination by Ms. Carson
`Redirect Examination by Ms. Kobialka
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`KROLL, DAVID
`(SWORN)
`Direct Examination by Mr. Hannah
`Cross-Examination by Mr. Heinrich
`Redirect Examination by Mr. Hannah
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`NAGARAJAN, CHANDRA
`By Videotaped Deposition
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`COLE, ERIC
`(SWORN)
`Direct Examination by Mr. Andre
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`Case 3:17-cv-05659-WHA Document 393-24 Filed 03/14/19 Page 3 of 3
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` 319
`
`HARTSTEIN - CROSS / CARSON
`'494 patent? You can answer that yes or no.
`THE WITNESS: As I sit here, no.
`THE COURT: All right. Next question.
`BY MS. CARSON:
`Q. You don't believe that any of Finjan's licenses have
`marking provisions; correct?
`A. That is my understanding, that our agreements do not.
`Q. And, in fact, you're not aware of any efforts by Finjan to
`monitor whether its licensees are marking their products with
`Finjan's patents; correct?
`A. That is correct.
`Q.
`I want to turn back for a moment to some of your testimony
`about Finjan's licensing program.
`One of the alternate options you identified was a per-scan
`rate; correct?
`A. Yes.
`Q. You're not aware of any licensees who have agreed to a
`per-scan rate in any licenses that Finjan has; correct?
`A. Uhm, no, not that they've agreed to.
`Q. Now, another way that a patentee can provide notice is by
`giving actual notice to the accused infringer; correct?
`A. Again, I don't know the standard of what that is.
`Q. You don't know one way or another whether Finjan gave
`Juniper what you would refer to as a notice letter in this
`case; correct?
`
` 321
`
`HARTSTEIN - CROSS / CARSON
`Q.
`If you wanted to value Finjan's patent portfolio, you
`would probably seek assistance from an expert; correct?
`A. Uhm, I have not ever sought to seek Finjan's patent
`portfolio to be valued, so I don't know what I would do.
`Q.
`I'd like to read from your testimony from the
`November 18th, 2014, deposition in the matter involving a
`different defendant, Finjan v. Blue Coat.
`MS. CARSON: We don't have the video for this one, so
`I will read it into the record. It's at page --
`THE COURT: Wait, just a second.
`Does the other side have any issue?
`MS. KOBIALKA: What's the citation?
`MS. CARSON: So it's page 27, lines 16 to 24.
`MS. KOBIALKA: The November 2014?
`MS. CARSON: November 18th, 2014.
`THE COURT: Are you there?
`MS. KOBIALKA: I'm sorry, it's 27?
`MS. CARSON: Page 27, line 16 to 24.
`MS. KOBIALKA: That's fine.
`THE COURT: All right. Read the question exactly.
`Say question, read it, then say answer, read it. No fixing it
`up in any way.
`MS. CARSON: May I omit the objections?
`MS. KOBIALKA: That's fine, Your Honor.
`THE COURT: All right. Omit the objections.
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`HARTSTEIN - CROSS / CARSON
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` 318
`
`patent?
`A. That's my limited understanding, yes.
`Q. Now, you mentioned earlier -- we've been talking about the
`fact that Finjan has entered into a number of patent licenses;
`correct?
`A. Yes. More than 20.
`Q. And it's fair to say that Finjan believes its licensees
`use its patents in their products; correct?
`A. Well, it's certainly used in the negotiations towards
`arriving at a license.
`Q. But Finjan believes that its licensees are actually using
`its patents in those products; correct?
`A. Yes, we believe that.
`Q. And you would suspect that Finjan's licensees' products
`are still being sold in the marketplace; correct?
`A. Uhm, yes, that's my personal understanding as well.
`Q. But you're not aware of any Finjan licensees that have
`marked their products with Finjan's patent numbers since the
`'494 patent issued in 2014; correct?
`A. Well, I would have to look at the Trustwave boxes. That's
`where I would go. I just don't know the answer.
`THE COURT: As you sit here right -- you're not
`answering the question.
`As you sit here right now, can you identify a single
`product by any of those licensees that bears the marking of the
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`HARTSTEIN - CROSS / CARSON
` 320
`A.
`I -- I don't know one way or another.
`Q. And you don't know whether Finjan ever provided Juniper
`with claim charts for the '494 patent prior to bringing its
`lawsuit; correct?
`A. Uhm, I don't know one way or another.
`Q. You never identified any specific accused products to
`Juniper during the presuit negotiations; correct?
`A.
`I did not, no.
`Q. Now, you provided some testimony today about the value of
`Finjan's patents; correct?
`A. Uhm, in the number of different contexts, yes.
`Q. But you would not consider yourself to be an expert in
`valuing patents; correct?
`A. No, I am not qualified for that.
`Q. And you don't have any formal training in the valuation of
`intellectual property; correct?
`A.
`I do not, no.
`Q. So you wouldn't consider yourself to be an expert in
`patent licensing issues; fair?
`A. Yeah, I think "expert" denotes something that I am not in
`this case.
`Q. And, in fact, you don't think you could competently value
`a patent portfolio; correct?
`A. Uhm, no, I don't think that would be something I would be
`very good at.
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