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`Exhibit J
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`Exhibit J
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 2 of 123
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`FOR THE DISTRICT OF ARIZONA
`_________________
`
`United States of America,
`Plaintiff,
`vs.
`Michael Lacey,
`James Larkin,
`Scott Spear,
`John Brunst,
`Andrew Padilla,
`Joye Vaught,
`)
`Defendants.
`_____________________________ )
`
` Phoenix, Arizona
`)
`) September 10, 2021
`)
` 1:15 p.m.
`)
`
`)
`)
`)
`
`))
`
`))
`
` No. CR-18-0422-PHX-SMB
`
`))
`
`BEFORE: THE HONORABLE SUSAN M. BRNOVICH, JUDGE
`
`REPORTER'S TRANSCRIPT OF PROCEEDINGS
`TRIAL - DAY 6 - P.M. SESSION
`
`Official Court Reporter:
`Christine M. Coaly, RMR, CRR
`Sandra Day O'Connor U.S. Courthouse, Suite 312
`401 West Washington Street, Spc 37
`Phoenix, Arizona 85003-2151
`(602) 322-7248
`Proceedings Reported by Stenographic Court Reporter
`Transcript Prepared by Computer-Aided Transcription
`
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
`
`
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 3 of 123
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`A P P E A R A N C E S
`
`For the Government:
`
`U.S. ATTORNEY'S OFFICE
`By: Mr. Peter S. Kozinets
`Mr. Kevin M. Rapp
`Ms. Margaret Wu Perlmeter
`Mr. Andrew C. Stone
`40 North Central Avenue, Suite 1200
`Phoenix, Arizona 85004
`
`U.S. DEPARTMENT OF JUSTICE
`By: Mr. Reginald E. Jones
`1400 New York Avenue, NW, Suite 600
`Washington, DC 20530
`
`For the Defendant Lacey:
`LIPSITZ GREEN SCIME CAMBRIA
`By: Mr. Paul J. Cambria, Jr.
`Ms. Erin E. McCampbell-Paris
`42 Delaware Avenue, Suite 120
`Buffalo, NY 14202
`
`For the Defendant Larkin:
`BIENERT KATZMAN
`By: Mr. Thomas H. Bienert, Jr.
`Ms. Whitney Z. Bernstein
`903 Calle Amanecer, Suite 350
`San Clemente, CA 92673
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 4 of 123
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`For the Defendant Spear:
`FEDER LAW OFFICE
`By: Mr. Bruce S. Feder
`2930 East Camelback Road, Suite 160
`Phoenix, AZ 85016
`
`For the Defendant Brunst:
`BIRD MARELLA BOXER WOLPERT NESSIM DROOKS
`LINCENBERG & RHOW
`By: Mr. Gopi K. Panchapakesan
`Mr. Gary S. Lincenberg
`1875 Century Park E, Suite 2300
`Los Angeles, CA 90067
`
`For the Defendant Padilla:
`DAVID EISENBERG, PLC
`By: Mr. David S. Eisenberg
`3550 North Central Avenue, Suite 1155
`Phoenix, AZ 85012
`
`For the Defendant Vaught:
`JOY BERTRAND, LLC
`By: Ms. Joy M. Bertrand
`P.O. Box 2734
`Scottsdale, AZ 85252
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`4
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`I N D E X
`
`WITNESS
`JESSIKA SVENDGARD
`Voir Dire by Ms. Bernstein
`Continued Direct Examination
`By Mr. Rapp
`Cross-Examination by Ms. Bernstein
`Cross-Examination by Mr. Cambria
`Redirect Examination by Mr. Rapp
`
`NACOLE SVENDGARD
`Direct Examination by Mr. Rapp
`Cross-Examination by Ms. Bernstein
`Cross-Examination by Mr. Cambria
`Redirect Examination by Mr. Rapp
`
`SPECIAL AGENT SUPERVISOR BRIAN FICHTNER
`Continued Direct Examination
`By Mr. Kozinets
`Cross-Examination by Mr. Cambria
`E X H I B I T S
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`PAGE
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`78
`101
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`Number
`211 C
`
`1636 B
`
`1636 C
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`1636 D
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`1636 E
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`1636 F
`
`Description
`Victim #4 Additional Backpage Ads
`USAO-BP-0033004 - USAO-BP-0033019
`
`Clip From 1636, 04:23-04:50
`(Tiffany Ad)
`Clip From 1636, 06:53-07:10
`(Diana Bedroom Pleaser Ad)
`Screen Shot From 1636, 8:51
`(Sarah Bella Ad)
`Screen Shot From 1636, 10:27
`(Veronica Ad)
`Clip From 1636, 12:30-13:05
`(Sponsor Ads)
`
`
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`Admitted
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`5
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`P R O C E E D I N G S
`THE COURT: And we are outside the presence of the
`
`jury.
`
`Mr. Rapp.
`MR. RAPP: I have two issues. One is, we're sort of
`creeping along here. We've got two witnesses who are out of
`state. We'd very much like to get them back on a plane.
`We fully appreciate Ms. Bernstein's situation, but
`Mr. Larkin has two attorneys, Mr. Bienert, and so we'd like to
`move this along a little bit faster. That's our one --
`You know, already we had yesterday as a day off,
`occasioned by the defense. We have Mr. Feder showing up here
`at 9:00 o'clock, when it was abundantly clear to everybody else
`that we were supposed to be here at 8:30.
`We have out-of-state witnesses. 90 percent of our
`witnesses are out of state that we're flying in, so that's our
`-- my first issue.
`Second, I want to address the government's 211 C. We
`made a prima facie case. This is a posting that has been
`certified by Carl Ferrer, which the Court has already ruled he
`is a custodian of records, that's 1235, Exhibit B.
`If they want to cross examine this witness on the
`weight, they get their opportunity, so we would like to finish
`up this witness and let the --
`THE COURT: So you're objecting to her doing a voir
`
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`6
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`dire?
`
`MR. RAPP: Yes. Yes.
`THE COURT: Okay.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: I guess I'll take them in reverse
`order, Your Honor.
`I don't believe that the Court has ruled that Carl
`Ferrer is a custodian of records, and, therefore, those records
`are admissible. In fact, until the records are admitted, the
`foundation does need to be laid.
`These ads that we're looking at are not, in fact, what
`they looked like when they were on the website, and so I just
`want an opportunity to ask the witness about that. I can do
`that during cross-examination, but we do object to the
`admission of the ads.
`I can also respond to this suggestion that because
`there was a day off yesterday, in an abundance of caution, as
`someone was exhibiting symptoms of a pandemic while we're all
`here for trial, and because Mr. Feder arrived at 8:45 this
`morning, which he explained was a misunderstanding, it doesn't
`actually impact the way my body produces milk for my infant,
`and the suggestion that I don't get to breastfeed when I'm
`doing this witness.
`Your Honor has asked us to try to be efficient. I am
`the one who is doing this witness. We're going to be
`efficient. So someone else cannot sit in. I need to see what
`
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`she's doing. I need to hear what she's doing. And the
`suggestion that I don't need to is wrong, and the suggestion
`that I should have breastfed yesterday or this morning is also
`wrong.
`
`And I would add, Your Honor, I have not been asking
`the Court for breaks every time I leave. I have left -- I
`leave four times during the course of a day. I have not asked
`for any breaks other than when it directly affects something I
`am doing.
`THE COURT: I know, but this morning we were on break
`for 40 minutes. And I purposely actually ran past 10:40,
`because you weren't the lawyer at the table, so that you could
`leave and we would not be on break for 40 minutes. And I'm not
`sure exactly what happened.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: I'm sorry, I don't understand. I
`needed to pump at 10:45, so I went and pumped and then I came
`back in.
`My body produces milk in three-hour intervals. I
`mean, it's not like -- this is very inconvenient for me as
`well. I wish this trial had gone sooner, but this is where we
`are, and I have an absolute right to feed my daughter.
`THE COURT: Okay. You didn't tell me 10:45, you said
`at a break, at the break.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: I apologize. I had communicated that
`to your courtroom deputy.
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`THE COURT: Okay. Well, we need to have better
`clarity so that I can efficiently run the courtroom, because
`we're now going to have less than 45 minutes before we have to
`take a break, which I am accommodating. I'm not saying I'm not
`going to. But we need to have a better discussion about this.
`And we'll do it later, because we don't have time right now
`because we're running out of time.
`So we will put the witness on. You can do your voir
`dire, as long as it is true voir dire, and then we'll proceed.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Thank you, Your Honor.
`THE COURT: Could you bring the witness in so she's --
`(1:21 p.m. the jury entered the courtroom.)
`THE COURT: Thank you. Please be seated.
`And we are back on the record with the jury present.
`Okay. Before we left, Ms. Bernstein asked to voir
`dire the witness. I'm going to allow her to do that.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Ms. Garcia, could the exhibit be put
`up on my screen, please.
`COURTROOM DEPUTY: I'm sorry?
`MS. BERNSTEIN: The exhibit that we're dealing with
`with this witness, I don't see it on the screen.
`THE COURT: Mr. Rapp, could you put that exhibit up?
`MS. BERNSTEIN: It's on Mr. Rapp's computer.
`COURTROOM DEPUTY: There you go.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Thank you.
`
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`9
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`VOIR DIRE EXAMINATION
`
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`Hi, Ms. Svendgard. I'm going talk to you over here, if
`that's okay?
`A.
`Okay.
`Q.
`This is a multi-page document, right?
`A.
`I don't know.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Can we click through the document for
`Ms. Svendgard?
`THE COURT: Mr. Rapp, could you help us with that?
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`Do you now see that it's a multi-page document?
`A.
`I do.
`Q.
`And this is in black and white, as well?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`Did you print these and provide them to the government?
`A.
`No, I did not.
`Q.
`Have you seen these before today?
`A.
`Yes, I have.
`Q.
`And the government reviewed these with you when it was
`preparing your testimony?
`A.
`Yes, they have.
`Q.
`This is not what it looked like when it was on the website;
`is that correct?
`A.
`I don't know what you mean by that question.
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`Have you ever seen your ad on the website?
`Q.
`Yes.
`A.
`Did it look like what's represented in these pages?
`Q.
`It was not in black and white.
`A.
`Did the government ever ask you to identify your ads off of
`Q.
`the website?
`A.
`I -- can you rephrase?
`Q.
`Yeah.
`A.
`I'm sorry. I don't understand.
`Q.
`It's okay.
`Did the government ever show you the website and ask
`you to pull your ad from the website?
`A.
`No, they did not.
`Q.
`They just showed you these black and white pages?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Thank you.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: So, Your Honor, we would object to the
`admission of these ads through this witness.
`THE COURT: Okay. Over objection, Exhibit 211 C will
`be admitted.
`MR. RAPP: Can I publish to the jury, Your Honor?
`THE COURT: Yes.
`MR. RAPP: Thank you.
`
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`11
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`CONTINUED DIRECT EXAMINATION
`
`BY MR. RAPP:
`Q.
`Now, Jessika, you see on your screen there?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Okay. I'm just -- I'm going to go through some of these
`postings.
`A.
`Okay.
`Q.
`And you have seen these before you testified today?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And you have seen these when you testified a number of
`years ago --
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Objection, Your Honor.
`THE COURT: What's your objection?
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Reference to facts not in evidence,
`violating the Court's order.
`THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
`BY MR. RAPP:
`Q.
`At the trial of Baruti Hopson, you saw these postings?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`All right. So let's look at a number of them.
`In terms of the text at the top, what does it say?
`No discounts, well worth it, no discounts, 18.
`Did you prepare the text of this posting?
`Either I or Baruti Hopson did.
`And with regard to the age, why 18?
`
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`You have to be 18 years or older to post an ad on Backpage.
`A.
`Now, with respect to the text there, do you see that where
`Q.
`it starts, Hi, my name is Joy?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`So, Jessika, that's not your name?
`A.
`No, it is not.
`Q.
`How is it that you were settled on the name of Joy?
`A.
`I believe Candace gave that name to me and it kind of just
`rolled over to when I was with Baruti as well.
`Q.
`Now, in this text it doesn't say anything about sex for
`money, does it?
`A.
`No. We would try to clean the ad up a little bit to make
`it less obvious to law enforcement that we were committing a
`crime.
`Q.
`Why were you concerned about law enforcement?
`A.
`Because prostitution is illegal.
`Q.
`Well, what about being concerned about Backpage?
`A.
`My understanding is that's what Backpage is used for, so
`that -- that was never a concern.
`Q.
`And, regarding the telephone number, your phone number or
`Candace's phone number?
`A.
`I can't recall.
`Q.
`All right. Fair enough.
`But there is these hashes in between the numbers. Why
`was that the case?
`
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`Again, just to make the numbers less, just, obvious to law
`A.
`enforcement trying to do stings and things of that nature.
`Q.
`All right. And, again, your age is 18, correct?
`A.
`On the ad, yes.
`Q.
`But at the time you were how old?
`A.
`I was 15 years old.
`Q.
`And you have the location as Seattle, SEA-TAC?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`And that's in the area of the airport?
`A.
`Yes, correct.
`Q.
`How about in call/out call, what does that mean?
`A.
`In call means that people can come to your location, and
`out call means you can go to them.
`Q.
`Now, we'll look at these images quickly.
`Were these -- were these the images Candace took or
`Baruti took?
`A.
`Candace took these of myself.
`Q.
`All right. Another -- another ad. This is July 9th of
`2010, correct?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`This time you're 19. Why?
`A.
`Baruti thought it would evade the police to make me not
`look so young.
`Q.
`And regarding Baruti, you see the e-mail there?
`A.
`Yes.
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`Do you recognize it? Do you need it magnified?
`Q.
`No. It's meenymak@hotmail.com.
`A.
`And what is that? What's the significance of that?
`Q.
`That was Baruti Hopson's e-mail and you need that in order
`A.
`to post an ad.
`Q.
`Why? Do you know why?
`A.
`So people have a way to respond to it if you don't have a
`phone number, to my knowledge.
`Q.
`Did anybody respond to you by e-mail that you recalled in
`the 105 days you were with Baruti Hopson?
`A.
`None that I met with.
`Q.
`Why is that?
`A.
`It seemed like too much of a paper trail and like it could
`be the police. Baruti would not allow it.
`Q.
`And were the vast -- so what was the majority of the
`arrangements you had with these men? How did they get in touch
`with you?
`A.
`By the telephone number on the ad.
`Q.
`And, again, the phone number, do you see that there?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Now, this is different. You actually write it out. Why is
`that the case?
`A.
`Just trying to make it not so obvious of how to contact us,
`in order to make it seem more difficult for a police officer to
`try to find the number on the ad.
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`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`Q.
`
`I'm now showing you page 5 of Government's 211 C.
`Do you see that there on your screen?
`
`Yes.
`A.
`And same thing, Joy, no reference to sex in the text, sex
`Q.
`for the exchange of money, right?
`A.
`Yes, you are correct.
`Q.
`Different pictures. We'll look at them quickly. These --
`are these pictures of you?
`A.
`Yes, they are.
`Q.
`Are these pictures Candace took --
`A.
`No.
`Q.
`-- or --
`A.
`No, sir.
`Q.
`-- or Baruti?
`A.
`Baruti Hopson took those.
`Q.
`And how did he take them?
`A.
`With a digital camera.
`Q.
`Another one, July 12th, 2010. See the phone number down
`there?
`A.
`Yes, I do.
`Q.
`This time with number signs in between them. Why was that
`done?
`A.
`To avoid -- to avoid police officers noticing the phone
`number in the ad.
`Q.
`Jessika, were your ads ever reposted, that you know of?
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`Yes, multiple times.
`A.
`What do you mean by that? Can you explain that?
`Q.
`In order to make the ad most recent when somebody is coming
`A.
`to look on the Backpage, you would repost it and it would be at
`the top of the list.
`Q.
`And why would you do that?
`A.
`In order to get more people to call.
`Q.
`And how many times a day do you recall either you or Baruti
`Hopson doing that, reposting your ad?
`A.
`Multiple.
`Q.
`Now, I'm showing you page 9 of 211 C.
`Do you see that on your screen, Jessika?
`
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`
`Yes.
`And this is August 8th of 2010, right?
`Yes, sir.
`Can you read the top line there of the text?
`120 HH, Joy, Joy, 120 HR, 19.
`And what does the 120 HH mean?
`It's $120 for a half an hour and $150 for an hour.
`Hour of what?
`Time with me.
`Whose idea, Jessika, was it to put in these time ranges?
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Objection. Calls for hearsay and lack
`of foundation.
`THE COURT: The objection is sustained.
`
`UNITED STATES DISTRICT COURT
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 18 of 123
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`BY MR. RAPP:
`Q.
`Did you put that in there?
`A.
`If I was told to.
`Q.
`Were there times where you were asked to write your own
`text?
`A.
`No, I was only told to.
`Q.
`You were only told to?
`A.
`Yes, sir.
`Q.
`By who were you directed to do that?
`A.
`Baruti Hopson.
`Q.
`Were there occasions, Jessika, where you -- where you
`posted, you -- you prepared a posting, not unlike one of these
`that we've looked at?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And posted it on Backpage. And when you -- did you have
`occasion to look at it when it was, for lack of a better word,
`live on the website?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Were there occasions where what you prepared and posted had
`changed?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`What can you tell us about that?
`A.
`I recall seeing my ad with dollar signs when I posted it,
`and they were gone when I saw it live on the ad, for lack of a
`better term.
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 19 of 123
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`Now, during the time that you -- you were with Baruti
`Q.
`Hopson for the 105 days -- and I think I might have asked you
`these questions and you'll remind me -- but did you meet a John
`that -- during that time period that you also participated in
`the prosecution of?
`A.
`Yes, I did.
`Q.
`Do you recall his name?
`A.
`Julian Tarver.
`Q.
`Now, Jessika, after -- after the trials of Baruti Hopson
`and Julian Tarver, did there come a time where you filed a
`lawsuit, or your mother, on behalf of you, filed a lawsuit
`against Backpage?
`A.
`Yes, there was.
`Q.
`Do you recall what year that was?
`A.
`I believe it was in 2012.
`Q.
`Did there come a time where you were deposed by --
`Do you know what a deposition is?
`Yes, sir.
`A.
`What is a deposition?
`Q.
`Where I make a statement about what happened in front of
`A.
`attorneys.
`Q.
`All right. And is there a court reporter there, not unlike
`a court reporter is here?
`A.
`Yes, there is.
`Q.
`And during that deposition, did you tell those lawyers
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 20 of 123
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`19
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`about the experience you had for 105 days?
`A.
`Yes, I did.
`Q.
`And do you recall a particular attorney from Backpage being
`present during your deposition?
`A.
`Yes, I do.
`Q.
`Who was that?
`A.
`Liz McDougall.
`Q.
`And did she identify herself as an attorney for Backpage?
`A.
`I -- I do not recall.
`MR. RAPP: If I could just have a minute, Your Honor?
`Your Honor, I'll pass the witness.
`THE COURT: Okay.
`CROSS-EXAMINATION
`
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`Hi, Ms. Svendgard.
`A.
`Hello.
`Q.
`I'm really sorry for what you've gone through, as a woman
`and as a mother.
`MR. RAPP: Objection, Your Honor. This is not a
`question.
`THE COURT: The objection is sustained.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`Ms. Svendgard, have you ever spoken to James Larkin?
`A.
`No.
`Q.
`Have you ever communicated with him in writing?
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 21 of 123
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`No.
`A.
`Have you ever met him?
`Q.
`No.
`A.
`And I'm going to do the same questions for all of the
`Q.
`people sitting over here.
`Have you ever spoken to Michael Lacey?
`
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`Q.
`A.
`
`No.
`Have you ever met him?
`No.
`And have you ever communicated with him in writing?
`No.
`Have you ever spoken to Andrew Padilla?
`No.
`Communicated with him in writing?
`No.
`Or met him?
`No.
`Have you ever spoken to Scott Spear?
`No, I have not.
`Communicated with him in writing?
`No, I have not.
`Or met him?
`No.
`How about Joye Vaught?
`No.
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 22 of 123
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`Never met her?
`Q.
`No, I have not.
`A.
`Never communicated with her in writing?
`Q.
`No, I have not.
`A.
`And never spoken to her?
`Q.
`No.
`A.
`Is Baruti Hopson in prison?
`Q.
`To my knowledge, yes.
`A.
`What about Candace?
`Q.
`I have no idea where she is.
`A.
`You never participated in a prosecution of her?
`Q.
`They could not find her.
`A.
`And this was in 2010; is that correct?
`Q.
`Correct.
`A.
`So they have never found her since 2010?
`Q.
`Correct.
`A.
`To your knowledge?
`Q.
`Yes.
`A.
`I don't want to rehash everything that you covered with
`Q.
`Mr. Rapp. I'm just going to try to talk to you about a couple
`of areas. Okay?
`A.
`Okay.
`Q.
`So you talked about how you had run away from home twice in
`2010; is that right?
`A.
`Yes.
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 23 of 123
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`And that had nothing to do with any website; is that
`Q.
`correct?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`Neither Backpage nor any other website?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`And when you first ran away, you met Candace; is that
`right?
`A.
`Yes, ma'am.
`Q.
`And she was 23, you said?
`A.
`Yes, to my knowledge.
`Q.
`And Candace is the one who introduced you to -- to this
`lifestyle; is that correct?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And just to be abundantly clear, you did not meet Candace
`through Backpage.com?
`A.
`No, I did not.
`Q.
`And when Mr. Rapp talked to you about Mr. Hopson's trial --
`You testified in that, correct?
`Yes, I did.
`A.
`And he just talked to you about your deposition in your
`Q.
`mother's lawsuit; is that correct?
`A.
`It wasn't just my mother's lawsuit, but yes.
`Q.
`That you had given a deposition under oath?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Okay. And in -- do you recall saying in those that you --
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 24 of 123
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`the ads that were posted on your behalf never had nude photos?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And do you recall also saying that you had never posted
`your face?
`A.
`I would have to see it.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Your Honor, can we please bring up
`Exhibit 28 at page 43, line 8.
`THE COURT: Where is it connected?
`COURTROOM DEPUTY: Is your staff getting it?
`MS. BERNSTEIN: I'm sorry, yeah.
`I'll move on for the time being.
`Can we please pull up Government Exhibit 211 C,
`Ms. Garcia.
`COURTROOM DEPUTY: I don't have control over the -- it
`would have to be your --
`MS. BERNSTEIN: I'm sorry, then let's just pull up the
`government's exhibit.
`I'm sorry. There are all these fancy computers.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`So I want to zoom in on the top of this.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Is this published to the jury?
`THE COURT: Now it is, yeah.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`I'm going to zoom in at the top of this.
`A little bit higher up, actually.
`
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 25 of 123
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`Do you see where it says -- oh, I can actually mark --
`do you see where it says what I just underlined?
`A.
`Yes, ma'am, I do.
`Q.
`So it says that it was -- this post was removed; is that
`correct?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And it says by me?
`A.
`That is what it says.
`Q.
`Did you remove the post?
`A.
`No, I did not.
`Q.
`Do you know who removed the post?
`A.
`I have my speculations, but, no, I do not.
`Q.
`Are you familiar with the person who posted this at -- let
`me underline here -- I think you said that that was
`Mr. Hopson's e-mail?
`A.
`Yes, ma'am.
`Q.
`So was it Mr. Hopson who removed this post?
`A.
`Considering he's in prison, I would think not.
`Q.
`Do you know when this post was removed?
`A.
`I do not.
`Q.
`Do you know whether the Backpage.com website is still live?
`MR. RAPP: Objection. Relevance.
`THE COURT: The objection is overruled.
`THE WITNESS: Can you reask the question?
`
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 26 of 123
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`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`Do you know whether the Backpage.com website is live?
`A.
`I do not believe it is.
`Q.
`Do you know that the government seized it?
`A.
`Yes, I do.
`Q.
`And the government took it down, to your knowledge?
`A.
`Yes, ma'am.
`Q.
`And before when we were talking about these ads, you
`indicated that the government never took you to the website to
`show you the ads; is that right?
`A.
`Not that I remember.
`Q.
`Okay. So do you know when the website was removed?
`A.
`Like when the federal government took it down?
`Q.
`Correct.
`A.
`I believe in 2018.
`Q.
`So do you understand that whenever this was obtained, this
`ad, which we don't know, that it says the ad was not live and
`the status was removed by me?
`A.
`I do not know that.
`Q.
`Have you seen this before?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Had you ever noticed that portion of this before?
`A.
`No, I did not.
`Q.
`Okay. I want to scroll down to the bottom of this.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: I apologize, but I don't know how to
`
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 27 of 123
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`26
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`use this stuff. I don't know how to clear the screen either.
`THE COURT: Upper right-hand corner, I believe.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: If we can zoom in on this portion down
`here, please.
`I'm sorry, we might need to zoom back out.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`But, Ms. Svendgard, are you familiar with this area right
`here that's called administrative data?
`A.
`I have seen it before. I have seen it before. I'm not
`super familiar.
`Q.
`You testified that you posted some ads on Backpage; is that
`right?
`A.
`Yes, ma'am.
`Q.
`And that you saw Mr. Hopson post ads on Backpage?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`Did you also see Candace post ads on Backpage?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`When they posted these ads on Backpage, did you ever
`observe this section of the ad that's called administrative
`data?
`A.
`No.
`Q.
`Okay. To your knowledge, was this section of the ad
`visible to the general person viewing an ad on Backpage.com?
`A.
`No.
`Q.
`So this section of the ad might have just been the back end
`
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 28 of 123
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`27
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`only?
`A.
`Correct.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: If we can go to the next page, please.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`Every single one of the ads that the government showed you
`just now was posted by this e-mail address; is that right?
`A.
`To my knowledge, yes.
`Q.
`And do you know whether it was, in fact, you or Mr. Hopson
`who actually posted these ads?
`A.
`It was either him or I.
`Q.
`You don't have a memory as to any of these specific
`advertisements?
`A.
`It was either him or I.
`Q.
`So either him or you who posted these ads lied; is that
`right?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`And there is a number of lies. I think you testified that
`the number indicated your age?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`But that was, in fact, a lie?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`Because I think you said minors were not allowed on
`Backpage.com?
`A.
`Correct.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Can we go to the next ad, please.
`
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 29 of 123
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`28
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`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`And that is also a lie?
`A.
`Yes.
`
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Can we go to the next one, please.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`Also a lie?
`A.
`Yes.
`
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Next one, please.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`Also a lie?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And while we're here, this one is another example of an ad
`that was removed. Do you know what that means?
`A.
`I'm guessing it means it was taken off the website.
`Q.
`You don't know whether it was or was not taken off the
`website, right?
`A.
`I do not know.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Can we go to the next ad, please.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`This is also untrue?
`A.
`Yes.
`
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Next ad, please.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`This is, likewise, untrue?
`A.
`Yes.
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 30 of 123
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`29
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`MS. BERNSTEIN: Next ad, please.
`Oh, I'm sorry, can we blow that one up again.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`And, again, here's yet another ad that was removed,
`correct?
`A.
`Yes, to what it's saying. It says removed.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Can we go to the next ad, please.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`Also untrue?
`A.
`Yes.
`Q.
`And this is, I believe, the last ad.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: If there is another, can we go to the
`next screen.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`And, again, that's also incorrect?
`A.
`Correct.
`Q.
`You posted your advertisements, or observed Mr. Hopson post
`advertisements of you in 2010?
`A.
`Yes, ma'am.
`Q.
`Throughout which months again?
`A.
`I believe late June to early to mid September.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Can we please put up Number 59.
`And this should not -- I don't know -- I don't know if
`this should be published or not. I don't know how these
`screens are controlled. I'm sorry.
`
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 31 of 123
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`30
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`COURTROOM DEPUTY: If you see the seal, no one can see
`it. None of the jurors can see it.
`MS. BERNSTEIN: Thank you.
`Can we put up Number 59.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`Do you recall seeing this, Ms. Svendgard?
`A.
`Yes, I do.
`Q.
`And when you saw it, it wasn't highlighted; is that right?
`A.
`I do not believe so.
`Q.
`This is what you saw in 2010 when either you or Mr. Hopson
`posted ads?
`A.
`I do not remember the any posts exploit, that part. The
`part in red, I do not remember.
`Q.
`And I think you can mark your screen too, if you'd like.
`A.
`Yeah, I don't remember this.
`Q.
`Do you recall seeing this one?
`A.
`Yes, I do.
`MR. RAPP: Judge, I would object. We're talking about
`the contents of an exhibit that's not been admitted.
`THE COURT: Okay. The objection is overruled. She
`hasn't read anything from it yet.
`BY MS. BERNSTEIN:
`Q.
`Ms. Svendgard, do you remember the -- what I'm just marking
`right here -- seeing that?
`A.
`No. I only specifically remember the last one.
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`Case 2:18-cr-00422-SMB Document 1355-11 Filed 10/20/21 Page 32 of 123
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`31
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`Can you mark it on your screen, please?
`Q.
`This. This one.
`A.
`And you remember thes
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